EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack

I found this preview of an upcoming sequel of sorts to EXPELLED.

I demand equal time for pumpkin patch theory! --Percy

My excuses for replying to my own post, but in post 115, I quoted the ADL saying this about a previous attempt to exploit the deaths of Jews under the Nazis by creationists in the modern culture wars:

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...Trivializing the Holocaust comes from either ignorance at best or, at worst, a mendacious attempt to score political points in the culture war on the backs of six million Jewish victims and others who died at the hands of the Nazis.

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From this press release: Page not Found | ADLI was guessing that they would come up with a similar condemnation of the "Expelled" film, and sure enough, they have.Press release here: Page not Found | ADL

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The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

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Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler's genocidal madness.

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Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.

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Ben Stein, meanwhile, is busy digging himself into an even deeper hole:

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Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

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Read more hereWithout realising it, Stein is giving plenty of ammunition to the mainstream scientists who claim that I.D. is anti-science. When the more thoughtful sector of the U.S. public read things like this, it'll occur to them that it would hardly be surprising if science departments were expelling people if they're part of a "science kills" religious movement!I think that we'll see some I.D. people disassociating themselves from some aspects of the film.

Did anyone see that Ben Stein's interview yesterday? I forgot which show. I was watching it while waiting in a hotel lounge.Stein was ridiculing the very idea of aliens or any other god except for the christian god for being a possible candidate for the designer. His case was that the christian god should be considered to a possibility but when asked about other gods or aliens Stein just hand waved it off and said it was ridiculous to think that an intelligent designer could be aliens or whatnot.The thing that I don't understand is that the ID movement have been trying very hard to not associate themselves (publically at least) to christianity. Wouldn't Stein's obvious bias for the christian god on public television undermine all of this effort?BTW, I think this interview was on fox. Not sure.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

Most seem to have given up that pretense, Taz, which was why I was laughing about Dembski using the word "God" as a three letter abbreviation for "intelligent designer" in his review of the film I linked to a few posts back (post 180).Are you sure that Stein said "Christian God"? Is he a convert?

He didn't say "christian god" but he implied it. When asked about aliens, he scoffed at the idea. When asked about hindu gods and such, he scoffed at the idea. Then he said that he believed "god" to be the intelligent designer. Seems pretty obvious to me.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

Odd implication if he's a believer in Judaism, which was what I was getting at.

Uh, if you didn't know it's the same god.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

Not really. Christ is God for Christians, but certainly not for Jews. A God who comes to earth as his own son and a God who doesn't cannot be one and the same. When there's a split in religion, like the split of Christianity from Judaism, a new God is automatically created. Same with the split of Islam from Christianity. Old earth Christians and YECs also believe in different Gods who created different universes in different ways.There are many "true" Gods of Abraham!Theists aren't people who all believe in the same God who actually exists. They believe in lots of different human inventions. But this is O.T.To relate it to the topic, it is because of these two different Gods and religions that two groups of people in central Europe were kept separate from each other for 1.5 millennia, and there were sometimes serious attacks and slaughters of followers of the minority religion, as during the crusades.If Ben Stein and the makers of "Expelled" really wanted to understand the holocaust, they would need to go into this history, and examine the role of religion. Pretending that science is a killer responsible for the symptoms of religious division will not alter the historical realities.After the war, religious people, both Christian and Jewish, tried to downplay the role of religion in the rise of the Nazis. But the Nazis were elected by an overwhelmingly Christian electorate, and a look at Hitler's speeches and writing shows the ancient religious prejudices that he was appealing to.The irony is that conservative Christians of the time were behind the Nazis and their pseudoscience, and it is conservative Christians who are the force behind the I.D. movement and their pseudoscience, as well as the film "Expelled", and its pathetic attempt to point the finger at real science as being the killer.This is one reason why the film is likely to backfire badly on the I.D. movement.

Well, then fine he was implying the jewish god. Doesn't really matter. What matters is he was ridiculing possibility of aliens or the gods of other cultures but somehow expected us to believe that the true intelligent designer had to be his god.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

I saw the interview. I believe it was Bill O'Reilly who did the interview. Imo, Stein waved off thinking ID could be other than the Biblical god because the Biblical record is the most concise, comprehensive, coherent and corroborated model for ID of any religion. Many of the arguments for ID can be made outside of Christianity. The reason many Biblicalists work to disassociate their arguments from religion is that we must do so in order to expect any fora for airing our views.There's another reason, imo, which is that the mainstream YEC position of a young universe and young earth is neither logical, scientific or Biblical relative to a literal reading of Genesis one.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Perhaps Stein has been working undercover to destroy the ID movement from the inside.Either that or he really is a freakin idiot.

Buzsaw writes:

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the Biblical record is the most concise, comprehensive, coherent and corroborated model for ID of any religion.

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(*chuckle*)Yes, we know you believe this, but the Bible is actually pretty silent on the matter. It simply says things came into being. Absolutely no mention of any methodology appears.And what little phrases do pop up are in direct contradiction to observation:The Bible says flowering plants appeared before insects, but the inverse is true.The Bible says that if you mate rams in the shadows of rods, the offspring will be striped, but we know that this bizarre version of Lamarckism isn't true.

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The reason many Biblicalists work to disassociate their arguments from religion is that we must do so in order to expect any fora for airing our views.

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You do realize that you just declared ID to be Christian theology and therefore has nothing to do with actual science, right?

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There's another reason, imo, which is that the mainstream YEC position of a young universe and young earth is neither logical, scientific or Biblical relative to a literal reading of Genesis one.

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Since a literal reading of Genesis puts the origin of the universe at just under 6000 years ago, I fail to see how you can claim that this doesn't jibe with a "young universe and young earth."

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

I know who bill is. It wasn't him.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

Here's the interview on UTube 4 U 2 C.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.