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Author Topic:   EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 196 of 438 (465199)
05-03-2008 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Buzsaw
05-03-2008 11:27 PM


Re: O'Reilly/Stein Interview
Yeah, this wasn't the interview I saw. I was waiting for some people at a hotel when I saw this.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Buzsaw, posted 05-03-2008 11:27 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Rrhain, posted 05-04-2008 3:24 AM Taz has replied
 Message 201 by Buzsaw, posted 05-04-2008 10:26 PM Taz has replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 197 of 438 (465221)
05-04-2008 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Taz
05-03-2008 11:49 PM


Paul Crouch, Jr./Stein interview
Do you mean this one, Taz:
Paul Crouch, TBN
Edited by Rrhain, : Changed title

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Taz, posted 05-03-2008 11:49 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 198 of 438 (465246)
05-04-2008 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Rrhain
05-04-2008 3:24 AM


Re: Paul Crouch, Jr./Stein interview
Nope.
ABE
Remember that the interview was on Friday. It's probably hasn't been added to youtube yet.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Rrhain, posted 05-04-2008 3:24 AM Rrhain has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 199 of 438 (465276)
05-04-2008 5:14 PM


There has been so much made of the Darwin=Hitler theme lately, this was inevitable:
Hitler is Darwin’s Illegitimate Son by Lady Hope!

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 200 of 438 (465287)
05-04-2008 9:03 PM


Aw yeah.
An injunction has been issued!
Injunction Against Expelled
A federal judge in New York has issued an injunction against any further distribution of Expelled in a lawsuit filed by Yoko Ono over the use of John Lennon's Imagine in the film without permission. The movie can continue to be shown, but no new prints can be sent out and they cannot distribute DVDs of the movie at least until they hold a hearing on a further injunction on May 19.
dispatches | ScienceBlogs

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 201 of 438 (465299)
05-04-2008 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Taz
05-03-2008 11:49 PM


Glenn Beck, Stein, CNN?
Glenn Beck/Stein/CNN

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Taz, posted 05-03-2008 11:49 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 202 of 438 (465304)
05-04-2008 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Buzsaw
05-04-2008 10:26 PM


Re: Glenn Beck, Stein, CNN?
Not what I saw. Again, this interview was last friday, not last year. Just wait. I'm sure someone will add it to youtube later.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Buzsaw, posted 05-04-2008 10:26 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Percy, posted 05-15-2008 8:58 PM Taz has replied

PurplyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 5795 days)
Posts: 20
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 203 of 438 (466225)
05-13-2008 5:44 PM


The movie was
The movie was trash. We confronted 2 delusional theists in the theater attempting to indoctrinate their children with crap.
There were only 8 people in the theater. Including the 3 of us.

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 204 of 438 (466291)
05-14-2008 9:02 AM


Is Ben Stein creationism's Tom Cruise? And is his movie just an attempt to create his own intellectual holocaust by substituting scientists bent on censorship and persecution for greedy money-lending Jews? (Oh the irony!)
Certainly Ben Stein has revealed himself to be a showman first and a thinker last. Though everyone has probably heard this already from Stein's own mouth, I'm providing this quote from his O'Reilly interview anyway just to set the stage:
Ben Stein writes:
Well, the issue is that Darwinism, which was a brilliant theory and a great, great relic of the age of imperialism in the 19th century, basically said that mankind evolved from apes and monkeys and from the cells and so forth, and that's a brilliant proposition, Darwin was a brilliant guy, but it didn't say how life began, it didn't say how the cell got to have hundreds of thousands of moving parts each of which has to work perfectly. It said maybe life began by lightning striking a mud puddle, that never struck me as convincing, and I thought there are lot of gaps in Darwinism.
What an incredible combination of chutzpah and ignorance! One would think that someone as brilliant as Stein would take the trouble to educate himself, so maybe he's not so brilliant. Maybe he's just good at what he does, which is convincingly delivering any message he's given whether true or not, and I offer as evidence his role in the Nixon administration.
Normally I wouldn't give in to the temptation of character assassination, but there's some quality in Ben Stein's character that needs explaining, because otherwise his central role in this movie makes no sense. So looking into the Stein/Nixon connection I found that Wikipedia says he is a Nixon apologist. About Deep Throat he wrote in The American Spectator:
Stein writes:
If there is such a thing as kharma, if there is such a thing as justice in this life or the next, Mark Felt [Deep Throat] has bought himself the worst future of any man on this earth. And Bob Woodward is right behind him, with Ben Bradlee bringing up the rear. Out of their smug arrogance and contempt, they hatched the worst nightmare imaginable: genocide [Stein believes Nixon would have prevented the Khmer Rouge rise to power had he not been forced to resign].
Wow! Here Stein is doing it once again, accusing people he doesn't like of the equivalent of genocide. Apparently Ben Stein believes that Mark Felt, Bob Woodward and Ben Bradlee (then publisher of The Washington Post), evolutionary scientists and Nazis all have a lot in common!
Right now it seems possible that this movie is just going to disappear without making too many ripples, but it's too early to be sure. We'll just have to hope. As for Ben Stein, I find him a sincere and lovable character, but apparently that's just acting, so from now on I will boycott all things Ben Stein.
--Percy

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 205 of 438 (466605)
05-15-2008 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Taz
05-04-2008 11:19 PM


Re: Glenn Beck, Stein, CNN?
Is this the interview you were referring to: Paul Crouch Jr. interviews Expelled's Ben Stein. Here's an excerpt:
Ben Stein writes:
"When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers [i.e. biologist P.Z. Myers], talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed . that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science ” in my opinion, this is just an opinion ” that’s where science leads you."
Well, I guess we're all thankful it's just an opinion!
AbE: Just finished listening to it, this can't be it because he barely mentions aliens. Oh, well.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Addendum.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 206 of 438 (466613)
05-15-2008 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Percy
05-15-2008 8:58 PM


Re: Glenn Beck, Stein, CNN?
Percy writes:
Is this the interview...
No, that's the one I linked to an extract from in post 183 on the Anti-defamation League's statement, and Rrhain linked to later on. It's a good one, though, and contains great lines if you ever have another "is I.D. science court case."
Scientists can hardly be blamed for "expelling" people who are part of a "science kills" religious cult, can they. The film will backfire, inevitably. I don't know if most Americans are aware of Hitler's many creationist Christian anti-Jewish quotes, but if the film is an unlikely success, they can easily be made aware of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Percy, posted 05-15-2008 8:58 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 207 of 438 (466694)
05-16-2008 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Percy
05-15-2008 8:58 PM


Re: Glenn Beck, Stein, CNN?
No, that's not it. The interview I saw both Stein and that other guy ridiculed the idea that the IDer could have been aliens or the various polytheistic gods (they weren't powerful enough!). But immediately after they ridiculed those things, Stein said that he believed "god" (referring to his own god) to be the designer and the other guy agreed up and down.
I'll post it as soon as I find it on youtube. I think that particular interview was the best demonstration of the judeo-christian agenda for imposing religion into the scientific community and people's everyday life.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Percy, posted 05-15-2008 8:58 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 208 of 438 (469878)
06-08-2008 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by molbiogirl
05-04-2008 9:03 PM


Re: Aw yeah.
Scientific American's site has an update on the Ono injunction. A federal judge overturned the injunction against the film's use of John Lennon's Imagine, and Ono plans to appeal: Imagine there's no evolution: Yoko says oh no to Expelled
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by molbiogirl, posted 05-04-2008 9:03 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 209 of 438 (487262)
10-29-2008 9:43 AM


Expelled, with lie-correcting subtitles!
I had the displeasure of finally watching expelled today. To anyone else who may want to watch it I would first recommend adding subtitles to make it more bearable.
Expelled, with lie-correcting subtitles! at bogosity.tv. It has the needed subtitle file, link to a good video player, and instructions on how to get your subtitles up and running.
I will leave it up to you to find the video. Rent it/rip it or find it elsewhere but I place my bets that your hard earned money is best spent buying the popcorn to toss at your television instead of giving money to these cdesign proponentsists.

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 210 of 438 (487473)
10-31-2008 8:36 PM


Watching Expelled
Had a little free time tonight before the Celtics game, so since Netflix is making Expelled available over the web for free I decided to watch it. I was so shocked in just the first 15 seconds that I decided to write this as I watched.
The film opens in black and white with kids playing on the street - in World War II Germany. Cut to a clip of Hitler with a couple army offices. Cut to a newsreel style map of Europe. Cut to barb wire being strung. Cut to the Berlin Wall being built. Cut to a marching armed Guard. Cut to concerned people looking on. Cut to the wall again. Cut to patrolling armed gaurds. Cut to kids playing soccer in the street. Cut to film's title, still all black and white.
Film switches to color. Short clips of anti-ID comments by scientists, including Dawkins. Ben Stein is introduced to an applauding audience. He gives a speech on freedom. He claims we're losing it at our most important institutions. He starts with Richard Sternberg. I'm going to stop typing now, this is the part of the film we've already heard so much about.
Whoa! Picking up again, because after Sternberg says that some people had visible physical reactions to the publishing of the Meyer paper, there's a quick cut to Krushchev banging his fists at the United Nations. As Sternberg continues to speak there are several quick cuts (all cuts are B&W) to a man being bullied by a gang, then punched in the face.
Whoa again! While interviewing Dr. Caroline Crocker there are a couple quick cuts to a guillotine, blade raised, then dropped. As she talks there's another cut to silhouettes of a priest leading a man being dragged forward by guards, presumably to his death.
Now an interveiw with Dr. Robert J. Marks. While describing his shock at his website being shut down there's a cut to a scene from Planet of the Apes where Kirk Douglas is in a cage being sprayed by a firehose.
Okay, I'm going to stop writing again. Evidently this is the way the whole film is going to go, with frequent cuts to black and white clips showing Nazis, hooliganism, executions, gunfights, etc.
Okay, it's about 10 minutes later, I'm maybe 22 minutes into the film, the short B&W clips have stopped. Ben Stein has moved on talking to the Discovery Institute, and now he's at Biola University talking to a Dr. Nelson, and he actually gave the proper definition of evolution. He also gave an excellent definition of ID, the search for patterns in nature that could only be the result of intelligence.
He's talking to Dembski now, who actually states a very moderate position, saying just as we discovered that Newtonian physics was not the whole picture in physics, now we're finding that evolution is not whole picture concerning changing life.
Now he's talking to Stephen Meyer of Discovery Institute, who says that the issue will be settled not by the great numbers of evolutionists but by evidence and arguments.
Now it's Jonathon Wells (Icons of Evolution), who claims the evidence for evolution is being distorted to fit a theory it really doesn't fit.
And on to David Berlinski in Paris, who says that Darwinian theory is like looking into a room full of smoke, unintelligible.
Back to Dawkins, who only had a short clip earlier. I'd heard the complaints about the dark lighting used with the Dawkins segment, usually accompanied by comments that the film should have been more professionally done, but I think the dark lighting is on purpose. So far the film seems technically very professional, and the dark lighting makes Dawkins and his clipped way of speaking seem far more sinister. Paraphrasing Dawkins, "The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that only the ignorant or the stupid wouldn't accept it." Yeah, Dawkins, that's who I want for my spokesperson!
Well, I'm 31 minutes into the film, I'm going to go watch the Celtic game now. If I have time sometime down the road I'll watch more of the film. I'd say that now that the heavy handedness of the first 10 minutes is over that the quality as measured by the traditional standards of the documentarian art has picked up quite a bit. The point of view is still clear, it's obviously not a balanced film, but this middle portion is much better than the opening.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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