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Author | Topic: The infinite space of the Universe | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Agobot writes: where the material universe ends It Does not end. Energy can not be destroyed. It may change shape and form but it will never end. Now this is a religious answer. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi CS,
Catholic Scientist writes: What's wrong with absolute nothingness being an impossibility? How is it a "paradox"? What is wrong? We are Here. If there was ever a time that there was absolute nothingness (an absence of anything) It would still be. Energy can not be created therefore it had to always exist. Or it can be created out of an absence of anything. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Catholic Scientist writes: Or two things that aren't energy themselves combine to become energy, like two branes colliding. So are saying two branes are an absence of anything? So how did they collide? God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
onifre writes: Do you understand the theory or are you arguing semantics just for arguements sake? If there was an absence of anything even my God there would be no branes to collide. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
cavediver writes: The early Universe was extremely dense and there was no free path through space for photons to travel. I thought there was no space for it to take off into. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
cavediver writes: Huh? What was there if there wasn't space? Well either space is expanding or space exists for things like the universe to expand into. I thought you had explained to me that the smaller than pea sized universe that existed in time past with nothing outside of it only what was inside. Space, time and everything we see and do not see was inside of it. The space inside of this universe began to expand very rapidly then slowed down, and is now speeding up again. So if space was expanding between every particle (for use of a better word) there was no space for the photon to take off into.That would mean the first photon is right where it has always been. Unless of course things move in space. If that is the case then is space not expanding? God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Straggler writes: what empty space is. Wouldn't that equal an absence of anything? God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Straggler writes: In the case of quantume fluctuations as experimentally observed - No. In this case we have the vacuum of spacetime existing rather than absolute nothingness (no dimensions, no time etc. etc.) Then are you saying there is no such thing as empty space? BTW I thought we agreed that there was never an absence of anything. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Straggler writes: At best creationist theories are a hotchpotch of alternative explanations for the effects and phenomenon that proper scientific theories have already predicted, discovered and uncovered. So when did the BBT predict inflation? Was it some 50 years or more after the theory? When there was enough problems with the BBT that it should have been discarded. Inflation was not predicted. It was necessary or the BBT was dead. It was an invented add on theory to save a failed theory. Then it was worked on and modified for the next 20 years to make it fit. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Superflurious
Edited by ICANT, : Superflurious "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Straggler writes: Really? What problems are these? How about these for starters? The flatness problem.The horizon problem. The monopole problem. CAMBRIDGE COSMOLOGY lists the following.Index | Relativity and Gravitation Group The flatness problem Why is the matter density of the universe so close to the unstable critical value between perpetual expansion and recollapse into a Big Crunch? The horizon problemWhy does the universe look the same in all directions when it arises out of causally disconnected regions? This problem is most acute for the very smooth cosmic microwave background radiation. The density fluctuation problemThe perturbations which gravitationally collapsed to form galaxies must have been primordial in origin; from whence did they arise? The thermal state problemWhy should the universe begin in thermal equilibrium when there is no mechanism by which it can be maintained at very high temperatures. The cosmological constant problemWhy is the cosmological constant 120 orders of magnitude smaller than naively expected from quantum gravity? The singularity problemThe cosmological singularity at t=0 is an infinite energy density state, so general relativity predicts its own breakdown. The timescale problemAre independent measurements of the age of the Universe consistent using Hubble's constant and stellar lifetimes? In AN INTRODUCTION TO COSMOLOGICAL INFLATIONANDREW R. LIDDLE put forth: 3. Problems with the Big Bang 3.1. The flatness problem 3.2. The horizon problem 3.3. The monopole problem (and other relics) 4.4.1 Inflation solves the flatness problem more or less by definition. 4.2 The rapid expansion of the inflationary stage rapidly dilutes the unwanted relic particles, 4.3 The inflationary expansion also solves the horizon problem. In summary Liddle said:
At present, inflation is the most promising candidate theory for the origin
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/9901/9901124v1.pdfof perturbations in the Universe. Different inflation models lead to discernibly different predictions for these perturbations, and hence high-accuracy measurements are able to distinguish between models, excluding either all or the vast majority of them. Since its inception, the inflationary cosmology has been a gallery of different models, and the gallery has continually needed extension after extension to house new acquisitions. In all the time up to the present, very few models have been discarded. Guth in his paper ETERNAL INFLATION said: Guth's first evidence for inflation is that there is so much mass in the universe. 1090 particles in the visible region. The only way to get that is if the mass doubles a few hundred times. Guth's second evidence is expansion itself. Guth's third evidence for inflation is that it is the only theory known that can explain the homogeneity and isotropy of the universe.
Guth writes: In the standard big bang theory there is no explanation whatever for this uniformity. In fact, one can even show that within the context of the standard big bang theory, no explanation for this uniformity is possible. Guth's fourth evidence is the flatness problem. Critical density. Guth's fifth evidence becomes a reason for believing. So now he has FIVE REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE INFLATION THEORY.
The fifth reason for believing the inflationary description is the absence of magnetic monopoles. This is the 2001 version not the original.
For the explicit constructions of eternally inflating models, the answer is clear. Such models start with a state in which there are no pocket universes at all, just pure repulsivegravity material filling space. So there is definitely a beginning to the models that we know how to construct. I like this one he starts out with space filled with repulsivegravity material. I wonder where all that space and material came from. http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0101507 According to Cambridge Cosmology there are many problems with the standard BBT. According to Liddel there are several problems with the standard BBT. According to Guth there are several problems with the standard BBT. According to Liddel and Guth Inflation solves all the problems. Now if there was just some way to get evidence that inflation happened. But then you would need evidence of where the space came from. Then you would need evidence of where the repulsivegravity matter that was in the space came from. Then you would need evidence for where the positive matter that reacted with the repulsive matter came from. There are many hypothesis of inflation but none have reached the point of theory even though they are called a theory. Now if you have information that refutes what these gentlemen say I would be interested in reading it.
Straggler writes: I am still not sure why you think any of this is a hige problem for BB theory? Guth, Liddel and Cambridge Cosmology think there is a problem.They are much more qualified than I am to determine if there is a problem or not. Straggler writes: Or do you fear that if you read a convincing book on the subject you might be tempted over to the dark side........?
Why would I want to read one persons opinion. I would much rather read what Stephen Hawking, Alan Guth , Andrew R. Liddle ,Robert H. Brandenberger, Sean M. Carroll, Arthur Kosowsky among many others have to say.
Straggler writes: COBE, WMAP etc. have since largely verified inflatiionary theory and it is now part of the established BB model. Not that I don't trust you but I need a little more than an assertion that the inflationary theory is largly verified. I found the statement below and can not find one that says it is verified. Michael S. Turner (U. Chicago and Fermilab) made this comment in his paper The New Cosmology Mid-Term Report Card for Inflation.http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0212281 While inflation has by no means been verified, its successes have raised the bar for competitor theories: God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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