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Author Topic:   How Do Scientists Believe in God and Evolution?
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 15 of 145 (467606)
05-22-2008 8:00 PM


A new theory of evolution, scientifically tested, studied, and analyzed
Is it their belief that God existed before the origin of the universe?
God is a word that we define in different ways. So is existence. If we look beyond typical uses for these words, we might come to an understanding about what happens, but generally - with the claim that I am a scientist or that humans are scientists when they use science - a scientist would insist on testing the assumption.
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of the universe?
God, as an existence, was created too. However, we don't know what part God as a non-existence plays. It is beyond our ability to comprehend.
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of our solar system, and the planet earth?
The forms such as stars and planets have ensouling life as do all forms. In one sense a planet and a sun are alive and conscious, give birth and die. God, in some uses of the word, is a conglomerate of intelligent potencies and laws. Many parts of this conglomerate are distinguised by different activites, including responsibilities in caring for and making use of planet earth. When it is the right time (or the proper step in a progression), a different entity or part of the mass of things we still don't understand would be looked to as God. Jehovah, Elohim, even Helios have different functions and most are relative in function to the human population of earth. We may not even have relevant words for use in describing the creation of the solar system.
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of life on the planet earth?
God is positioned above (and yet pervades "through") the activities on earth. What happens to earth also happens to God, as the earth is only part of a more Supreme Being. The energy states in God come into play on the earth in a cycle shown by the advancement of one kingdom after another descending to the earth and then consequently ascending off the earth. The cycles could be thought of as similar to a process of maturation in a human being.
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of man on the planet earth?
The human lives are a kingdom that once was an animal kingdom and prior to that a vegetable kingdom and prior to that a mineral kingdom. God participates with each kingdom of nature as if the kingdom is part of God's body or makeup (not confining the thought to physical, but including any body, including mental or emotional states or fields.)
Is it their belief that God has intervened in the evolutionary process at any time (dramatic changes, complex organs, etc.)?
Whenever a higher kingdom or energy "intervenes," it is a common practice to include that intervention as belonging to the sumtotal of all higher existences. So we use the term God to refer largely to things that are unknown by us, but superior. A miracle can be shown to occur when we consider life only in the human sense of ability, whereas a higher kingdom or consciousness would "naturally" have abilities that we cannot reproduce or explain. In that sense, there are interventions, especially during the ascension process of the human kingdom.
Is it their belief that God has intervened in the development of man to introduce an eternal spiritual presence that does not exist in other organisms?
Just as the animals are ascended by humans (see my webpage), the humans are ascended by a kingdom which still remains unnamed in the scientific world. Due to my personal need to discuss and refer to this kingdom, I have named it a "girasas." Searching on this word will lead to other work I have done in the debate. Since a girasas kingdom may appear as God to some, we could answer that "yes, the girasas has an eternal presence with humans only they would not always be girasas. When we are animal, the presence that ascends us would be human. They change and evolve just as we do, through cycles." Eternity refers to a "turning point" and due to the scheme including descent as well as ascent, when the human is descending into form, the girasas are not present, but we (the humans) act as the eternal presence upon the animals who grow and evolve by our influence upon them. During the first 3 races, the formula is strictly one of human-animal, during the 4th race the formula is human-God (without animal, without girasas) and for want of a second to interact with, God has direct place in our hearts until the girasas arrive during the 5th-7th races.
Is it their belief that the miracles recorded in the Bible that contradict the physical laws of nature are true including the resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Miracles begin to happen in relation to "end-times" for human life due to this natural cycle of descent-ascent after the 4th root race. While God (or in this case girasas kingdom) intend to make themselves known to us, they slowly penetrate our consciousness by speaking to us and demonstrating that they are with us in varying ways. What is slated to occur is that the girasas kingdom will become more and more prominent due to efforts of the human to absorb them into our nature. We will willingly enjoy their presence because of the many additional benefits, advantages, and resources that they possess that we do not. The process of holding or "tieing" ourselves to the girasas kingdom is so slow - as evolution is - because of differences so great that there would be considerable discomfort if each step or progression is not fully committed to. They are as uncomfortable to inhabit a human form as we are to host their reception. They must produce structures in our bodies over time so that they can act as they enjoy acting, pushing aside the human ways and thinking that can inhibit them. Humans strive to participate in as many ways as they can, hoping to obtain features for our future use and possession, without losing consciousness and without allowing the girasas to cause a completely non-active and non-responsive condition in our lives. The trick of giving the girasas life while preserving and enhancing our own is the responsibility of both kingdoms. We LOVE them with our very bodies and thoughts, completely immersing, yet eventually being transcended due to the weight of the interaction causing us to reach beyond our current capable state. When we ascend, we take a chunk of them with us so that when the next descent into form through animals occurs, we can progress into a new physical existence (and environment) and the animals can take away a chunk of us that we are willing to part with.

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 22 of 145 (467813)
05-24-2008 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Granny Magda
05-24-2008 9:15 AM


Re: Scientists and Belief in God
Smarter apes hmmmm yes, well, I read a book that exists in the theosophical library that describes scenes which occurred during the 7th human race of the 7th round. At this time humans and animals both are reaching the critical point of passing into the next kingdom for to begin again 7 rounds of 7 globes as a kingdom of nature.
In the book called (to the best of my recollection): MAN, WHENCE, HOW, AND WHITHER, there were apes serving humans and living in the same house with them.
Two points:
1) Those apes (like the ones living on earth today) could be angelic and involving lives occupying a form that is also instrumental to the evolving animal lives at some point in their development (arguably towards the end or 7th round).
AND 2) We see a certain balance at this point in time (4th round 5th race) due to the apex or turning point creating a balance. When we are in the 7th round, 7th race, we very well could be accompanied by evolving animals. It isn't too clear in the literature.
As we are currently today, we are still too muddled in our thinking. Even eastern religions warn us about the illusory nature of maya, causing many to perhaps not place too much stock in what they find happening here on earth. Why?
To be fair, a simplified presentation of evolution based on the writings found in The Saint Germain Foundation and The Theosophical Society is not all inclusive. A set of channelled books by Maurice Cooke given to him by an Ascended Master Hilarion include a book that describes some of the lives in the animal kingdoms that we see on earth today being brought here as visitors from another system.
I always hate to bring this up when we are just learning the "easy version" of this evolutionary scheme, but it was quite a surprise to me that each species or kind needs careful examination and placement and we aren't doing that currently.
If we have to accept what we are told (as a way to value truth as opposed to seeking for it), then unfortunately we need to compromise and work with two distinct methods: science and religion. Very valuable information can be obtained for us to use by proper channelers.
I actually consider it a small miracle that I, Brenda Tucker, a novice with a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology am entrusted with this work and that I, cannot yet, after 13 years, find an associate to work with me. I am still working without assistance and on my own laurels. I can tell you I deciphered this 7 race code (or writings) to mean that a higher kingdom ascends the lower kingdom and that our future will involve greater and greater degrees of contact with the mind and bodies of that kingdom. We will change and evolve due to their influence. The way that we again manifest on an earthly globe what we learn from them is up to us to decide at the next descent through the animals and into form. Through association with the lower (or higher) kingdom vast changes occur in the lower kingdom and very little change occurs in the higher kingdom except for their taking of form.

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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 41 of 145 (468017)
05-26-2008 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Wumpini
05-26-2008 10:48 AM


Issues in creation vs issues in religion
Perhaps I could get an answer to my posts as I have answered the questions that appeared in the first message.
I have read the discussion and want to iterate the questions that we are asking:
1. "How did we get here?" according to a creationist is answered (in a sense) because it is dismissed with something offhanded. Of course we want to know about creation with that kind of a question, but we also seem to want to accept a simple account that is told to us so that we can then get to the bigger questions. With creationists (refering to the word itself) there is no bigger question. "Creation" refers to how we begin.
2. "How did we get here?" according to an evolutionist is not answered until all of the steps between the beginning and where we are now are thoroughly investigated. Evolution (the word) refers to step by step change and its analysis as a means to rationalizing our existence back far enough until we know what was there near the beginning and in this way we can attempt an explanation for what was at the beginnng and why just those things constituted a beginning, hopefully learning more in the process.
At least with evolution, there is a process. With creation, there seems to be no process. With creation there is no study of the past in hopes of answering more fully the proverbial question. Now that we all study (because all humans become educated with the findings) our larger past, doesn't it make you wonder if evolutionist will really come any closer to answering the question than we had come before with the creation version?
So change the question. Why don't we all change the question to "How can religion be relevant in a changing world?" I submit to you NOT that religion will answer that question any fuller, but that religion will present to us a new question that won't pretend to be answerable through study of nature. If we wish to know how to make use of religion and what role religion can still play in these more modern times, we should ask it and not hide behind the debate on the above question.
Religion presents to us a "higher calling" and a "greater truth" than any we have known (in any way) before. Through the use of religion we hope to accomplish what? In my educated (since I have read many books written recently) guess, what we do with religion is TIE OURSELVES TO A HIGHER KINGDOM OF NATURE.
This higher kingdom of nature I have named girasas. I (or rather Jesus Christ and others) have experienced what this higher kingdom can do and they have attempted to communicate to us their findings. This is scientific in nature (because ultimately all humans are scientific in their inquiry). We don't base conclusions on fantasy. We really need to be able to believe in each other's goodness. Jesus wasn't playing tiddly winks. He had a very important message for all of us and that message is that we can invite this kingdom into our lives and we can change and become "advanced" through association with this natural living thing.
But I only discovered this through study. A new kingdom of nature descending through the humans ultimately means that we are ascending and this doesn't have to be a bad thing. After we ascend and evolve, we descend and evolve the lower kingdom. A very nice cyclic law can be found at work and then who cares how we got here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Wumpini, posted 05-26-2008 10:48 AM Wumpini has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 48 by Wumpini, posted 05-26-2008 7:05 PM brendatucker has replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 42 of 145 (468023)
05-26-2008 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by brendatucker
05-26-2008 11:38 AM


New questions
Now what I sometimes question is this:
Do scientists intend to continue to ignore this higher kingdom in some offhanded hope that they will go away?
Or
Do scientists actually enjoy reaching into the sketchy jaw-breaking past for answers that could be obtained another way because it is familiar to them? Are they more confident with the past because it is familiar to them?
Yes, a new kingdom would be strange and wonderful, but the law says that we've done this before and maybe that is why we are so slow in reaching for it. It may hurt - a lot. No one likes to be made to look like a fool, which this higher kingdom is bound to make happen. How do we preserve some semblance of sanity through all this?
While I put myself in this position of being in the right place at the right time (somehow this theory happened to me), I don't want to risk having my son grow up to some responsibility that he (based on past circumstances) isn't fitted to. I can't stand the idea that my son would communicate to people about a cross between girasas and humans by "dying" on a cross. I agree that it could be very, very, dangerous trying to give a girasas a full life when others are barely conceptualizing the possibility, so we just need to get everyone studying the written material that is here already. I'm not a writer. I'm a reader. Why can't our academic studies include this material? It is wonderful. It is fascinating. I could go every week and hear more, but it is also tedious and takes a tremendous amount of commitment and so if someone only has the stamina to endure a short course, they should be encouraged to do what they are able to do.
Being in my position (a favorable one), I prefer to think that my "winnings" can be invested in temple building (according to the new writings) and in this way Christianity has to agree not to be overly threatened. We just want to study this material in a proper environment outside of the academic sphere.
Edited by brendatucker, : question mark

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 46 of 145 (468040)
05-26-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Stile
05-26-2008 2:52 PM


Re: Scientists study known reality
I'm not a great thinker or a great mind. I think that you should offer up those items for consideration to everyone alive and not consider it to be solely my responsibility. I did some work. I hope you can use what I can provide, but I can make a suggestion for thinking over.
Yesterday in our study group (We are studying THE ESOTERIC TRADITION by G. de Purucker, 1935) we read pages 462-470 in Volume I, "Behind the Veils of Science", sections v & vi. We held discussions regarding what was written there, (just 5 people) It was amazing to me that scientists points of view were examined and included: Prout, Thomson, Aston, and Dampier-Whetham and that the conclusions drawn by these great "thinkers" varied where Prout put forth Hydrogen with an atomic weight of 1 as the primordial substance which was later refuted by Thomson's and Aston's work which showed the other elements were not exact multiples of hydrogen, due partly to the Soddy isotopes and then having Dampier-Whetham return to Prout's views and supporting that the other elements are all multiples.
The two bodies - one electron and one proton - at that time could not be traced back further however since that time subatomic particles have proved further building blocks. So in a sense we are in a world where hydrogen is 1 and yet there are still more infinitesimal breakdowns of what we consider to be the "1" of the material world.
Purucker takes the reader away from looking for roots and forward into looking at the physical conception of a "single" human being and at how those senses were developed and he (and others) claim that the senses were developed in turn by a racial progression (see the theosophical conception of seven races) with the 1st human race developing hearing, second touch, third seeing, fourth tast, and fifth smell. Two senses have yet been developed but will come forth during the next two races.
Due to this presentation and his comments (and ours) that sight should be so lame in comparison to the need for hearing and touch, we considered what the author said about each of the senses being capable of reacting to a range of radiation from lengthy to short wave-lengths. He uses a reference by James Jeans in THROUGH SPACE AND TIME where the claim is made that the ears can hear 11 octaves and eyes are limited to only one octave.
Through our discussions, we began to place the significance of sight alongside that of the hydrogen atom as a number 1 for manifested life. While the vibrations recede into deeper states of sense both by subparticles and by sound octaves, it is the 1 which appears to be the most manifest of the range of states and by comparison, it would be the 3rd race as the first material "split" of the human from the androgynous human-animal (2nd race state). When the human splits and stands alone in a form of its own, it has materialized and this is what we tend to use as our standard for basic knowledge.
We all admit that the subtler states of matter exist and likewise that subtler senses could be active and without recognizable features (Can we really tell what someone is hearing in their head in any way?), but we prefer to have a neatly ordered world with easily recognizable means of order and for that purpose sight is preferred to sound or touch for purposes of proving something.
It shows a "curve" of manifestation where early individualization is often disregarded as worthy of being considered the primordial substance or initial stage of existence.
Because of analogies like these, it can be seen how the girasas, when "heard" by writers who participate in writing down their words, are not validated as existence. So if you would portend to know this kingdom, then let's put the word girasas into use and in a dictionary.

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 Message 44 by Stile, posted 05-26-2008 2:52 PM Stile has replied

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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 64 of 145 (468147)
05-27-2008 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Wumpini
05-26-2008 7:05 PM


Re: Issues in creation vs issues in religion
I feel that I am a scientist because I actually tried to investigate by living according to the dictates that were presented to me in order to prove the claims regarding the theory of evolution which I read in THE SECRET DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky.
I am aware that academic institutions and the media do not propose Blavatsky's written work as an alternative theory of evolution to Darwin's.
I would like to help the public become more familiar with this work and as an 19 year old encountering "the path of occultism" for the first time in The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the instructions there being not too different from 10 commandments, I investigated what I could find written about in theosophy and elsewhere in hopes of ascertaining the public's reluctance to wrestle with the ideas of evolution found there.
While I would NEVER attempt to burden you with such a misconceived theory under ordinary circumstances, in this case I have made the attempt (for 13 years) to communicate what I consider to be scientific findings regarding what this theory by Blavatsky describes. As a psychologist investigating, I had to have obtained something that I did not find written about in the literature. In this case, I found an evolutionary cycle (which is written about) that seemed out of balance because we are told that the human kingdom is the last of 7 kingdoms that occupy and make use of these 7 globes in our planetary chain.
The cycle I discovered is only considered new and relevant because it includes on further kingdom only in regards to the human ascent. This higher kingdom - the girasas - has gone beyond the need to attain form on a single globe such as the earth. Only 7 kingdoms - as babies or children - growing towards universal standing are limited to life as a form on a globe.
Once the girasas kingdom is reached we have grown beyond our need to occupy a form in that manner. We still will have forms, but the forms will be capable of living or calling another structure within our universe home. Thus my understanding of the cycle of descent and ascent according to the literature I had read did not include a descent by the girasas kingdom. With a sudden awakening that this kingdom could complete their duties to lower life forms by ascending the humans, but not taking up residence in forms on earth or any similar globe, I had what I needed as far as a scientific discovery to make an announcement concerning how we can understand what is written more adequately.
If a girasas kingdom aids in evolution as a 7 race theory describes, we would have religion and Jesus Christ attempting to instruct us about actual occurrences which had not yet come to a larger group as a whole. Forerunners may prove instrumental in bringing us knowledge that we cannot obtain on a case by case basis. Christianity is said to be a 5th race religion with association to the European continent. In our North American continents, we need to have the founding of a 6th race religion to accompany our race. Both theosophy and the "I AM" Temple may help us to achieve a new approach to life through religion. Christianity, in my estimation of truth, appears to be the most helpful in advancing towards the goals of the 6th race, while maintaining an equilibrium for the 5th race to peacefully coexist.
Evolution to me, since the age of 19, has always been an investigation of theosophy and I am so sorry that others have not joined me in this study, because it is truly a powerful presentation. How can we help others to hear about this newcomer to the stage after so many have previously dismissed theosophy as fantasy or myth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Wumpini, posted 05-26-2008 7:05 PM Wumpini has not replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 66 of 145 (468150)
05-27-2008 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Granny Magda
05-26-2008 8:39 PM


Trilobite and dolphin
I am very interested in your remarks about trilobites and dolphins and have also examined this data to some extent with the inclination to make the following remarks.
Could trilobites be seen as an "evolving animal race" such as the 3rd animal race which would have had to evolve by making its body out of that "housing" the plant life in an arrangement to ascend that plant life off the planet. When the evolving plants are ascended away from earth, the animal lives would ensoul plants for their use (a type of virtual world) by commanding the angels to take up the forms that were dropped by the evolving plants. A fourth race animal would be the evolving animals "4th round" and furthest attainment to date. Once the human descent begins, the forms occupied by the evolving animals - which would be tending towards extinction except when engineered for use by the group of human angels and permitted to exist within our virtual environment (void of all evolving plants and animals). The evolving life "waves" would return during the 5th round and start up at their last attained life structures. The "shistas" of the evolving lives are buried in the earth in strategic places that allow them to be revived for use during the next round. A dolphin form - while useful and pleasant to the human - may have little use to the evolving animal and would hence not exist until an advanced stage of life. Since we see dinosaurs as going extinct, we can imagine differing levels of dinosaur forms as 4th race animals and resulting 5th - 6th race animals - until the human had made their form out of the bodies of those evolving lives and ascended the life on its progressive journey around the globes in the chain (as reported). Trilobite to dinosaur is enough of a transformation for the evolving life, whereas dolphin can be seen as part of the angelic life created in conjunction with the human descent.

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 Message 54 by Granny Magda, posted 05-26-2008 8:39 PM Granny Magda has not replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 73 of 145 (468910)
06-02-2008 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Wounded King
06-02-2008 4:40 AM


When can I count on you to do the right thing?
Would the ideas that I present and that are found based in theosophy revolutionize knowledge?
Would a new approach to knowledge generate from this new seven race theory of evolution? Would we find a way to communicate, decipher, and gather data from the girasas?
How soon would we be able to fill books with what they tell us and how long would it take before those books could be fully understood?
Would purifying practices such as healthy diets and abstinences become the trend?
What would happen to all the knowledge we now have gathered into books? Would all that we now "known" have to be rewritten?
A revolution is a mighty thing!

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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 108 of 145 (469400)
06-05-2008 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Straggler
06-05-2008 12:32 PM


A new theory of evolution
While this topic is located under Social and Religious Issues and Faith and Belief, the debate between the two sides rages on.
IF we could lend an ear to a new theory of evolution that encompasses both sides of the debate, we would still have a ground for considerable debate, but we would also have impetus towards additional research and consideration of additional findings.
Social and Religious Issues are not evaluated by those people who find religion to be void of a modern standard of excellence. Excellence today involves reading, observation, analysis, and formal experimentation. No formal experimentation is occurring because there is still no formal reading of the written material that is available.
When I went to college with a major in psychology, I would have loved to read about experiments being done with developing the human potential which is often associated with accomplishing the miraculous. However, my university failed me because I could not find a professor versed enough in the modern literature to even present the written material to me in an understandable manner.
For this reason, I had to drop out of college, join the staff of The Theosophical Society in America just to get an education. Once I had paved my way into this study, an additional organization (even more recently founded) called my attention to its material. Now I can present very relevant information from my reading and studying within these two organizations, but I do not have the voice that I need within established academic publishing circles with which to make the announcement that I have to make.
I want everyone here to take a back seat to my needs, because I don't think that they are any different from the needs of society and the needs of other students like myself. I just want to be able to study what material we have to date.
The seven race theory of evolution suggests that higher kingdoms of nature exist and that they are concerned with the human kingdom because they once were human and just as we enjoy studying and understanding what nature offers us, they also enjoy the process of mentally puzzling out what humans do.
A higher kingdom would be SIGNIFICANTLY advanced beyond the human intellect, as far above humans as humans are above dinosaurs in abilities. This higher kingdom - the one directly positioned in line in front of the human - is also at play here on earth, because it is their declared purpose to ascend the human beings on an evolutionary journey of descent into form, followed by ascent out of form.
If they are able to perform feats (as exhibited by Jesus Christ), then someday when we all are 6th race humans we will have the same abilities plus more. A 6th race human is described as half human and half (higher kingdom) girasas. I can't even get this word in the dictionary. Can you help me to accomplish a dream of mine?
Try not to think of the pain that it will cause you, but think of it as formalizing a little understood process into a much needed open forum of concern and debate. We can still debate how we would like to achieve the goals ahead of us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Straggler, posted 06-05-2008 12:32 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 111 of 145 (469406)
06-05-2008 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Coyote
06-05-2008 1:07 PM


Re: A new theory of evolution
No one asked you to major in this field of study, but it would be nice if you could at least acknowledge that it is here.
We want to use science, but it is very difficult to trace the influence of the descent of a girasas into a human if we don't have a starting point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Coyote, posted 06-05-2008 1:07 PM Coyote has replied

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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 120 of 145 (469444)
06-05-2008 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Wumpini
06-05-2008 3:17 PM


Theories
But, Straggler, this is the perfect board. I can claim that I am a scientist on par with Darwin because I know of a theory of evolution that you are unfamiliar with. Why are you unfamiliar with the books and how and when they were written? Because they have been thrown out of polite academic circles due to their radical nature. Just as you are attempting to throw me out due to ignorance.
If you knew these ideas already, I wouldn't have to take so much of the discussions time going over them in a thorough manner. Aren't you the one who should leave or start your own?

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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 121 of 145 (469445)
06-05-2008 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Coyote
06-05-2008 1:39 PM


Re: A new theory of evolution
This theory includes all of the evidence that exists in the world because it embraces the work of science as its own. This theory wants everything accomplished by science EXCEPT the belittling and denial of the value of religion.
By using this theory, we can embrace both sides of the debates and create a patient understanding of the two points of view. Science shows what? That forms progress. That was known long before Darwin. Science shows a method from which to accumulate information. So does religion. The information that we received from religious people such as THE SECRET DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky is instrumental in advancing the goals of both sides of the debate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Coyote, posted 06-05-2008 1:39 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Coyote, posted 06-05-2008 4:52 PM brendatucker has not replied
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brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 125 of 145 (469470)
06-05-2008 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Straggler
06-05-2008 4:59 PM


Forbearance
I am hoping that you will understand, Straggler, that I have been doing what I am doing now for many years. Over these 13 or so years, I have had many experiences, including the invitation to "go start my own." I have complied and it has not been a success. No one wants to talk about something they are unfamiliar with.
We all like to talk from the basis of our education. The only difference with me is that I had to "nearly" provide my own education. You see, neither of the groups that I participated with taught the theory - that you can actually read, if you are interested in. When I discovered the ideas and could produce them coherently, neither of the organizations were interested in helping me to publicize my findings.
The only solution is for me to break in where I am not wanted and to attempt to drum up interest there. I'm sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Straggler, posted 06-05-2008 4:59 PM Straggler has not replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 126 of 145 (469474)
06-05-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by brendatucker
06-05-2008 4:38 PM


Re: A new theory of evolution
In science when that term (theory) is used it refers to an explanation that covers all known facts, has withstood numerous tests, and which has successfully made predictions.
Oddly enough, the known facts that successfully predict a certain result associated with this theory, are the world's religions. I am hoping that we can attempt to find explanations associated with known facts when we more thoroughly understand the implications after careful study and thought.
The theory as presented in THE SECRET DOCTRINE shows a progression from religion to religion and race to race. We have one definition of race and a new definition for race would have to be added since the one used by the theory doesn't currently exist.
This new definition of race can be illustrated by the progression of religion, one to the next. I suggest to you that there are subtle hints that help to association the Egyptian religion with the 1st race, the Hindu religion with the 2nd, the Greek/Roman myths with the 3rd, the Buddhist, Zen, or Taoist religion with the 4th race, the Christian with the 5th race, ????? unknown for 6th race, and the curious nature of the 7th race (a family race as indicated by THE SECRET DOCTRINE) suggests Judaism with beginnings in Chaldea as a 7th, which is challenged by the Muslim religion also appearing as characteristically 7th race.
The clue here is that the 7th begins at the same time as the 1st and 2nd races, however the 7th is only a small, small percentage of the population that remains small over time while continuing alongside the people in the population as they more typically progress through the different races, one after another. Because we have no sixth race, I can only guess that we have what will someday become the foundation of the sixth race with the two organizations that I have studied: The Theosophical Society and The Saint Germain Foundation and that this sixth race will grow in a slightly different manner than a seventh race will grow.
If you read the available books on the subject, you will understand more thoroughly, but I can suggest that the 6th race itself will not begin for another 400,000 years. We may have a 6th subrace (as are each of the religions enumerated above subraces) whereas the entire population on earth today is characterized as the 5th root race. The 4th root race went extinct (I believe the book records the last remnant sinking - a white island - 11,000 years ago.)
A race slowly grows and slowly declines in numbers, subraces however may repeat themselves numerous times in the period of a race. The cycle is somehow instructive to people, although there is little evidence of how this helps us to keep repeating the same lesson - descent through animals for the purpose of acquiring the necessary form followed by ascent through girasas for the purpose of increasing our spiritual awareness of ourselves and life in general.
As we repeat these, the religions unfold from each other in accordance with this numbering of our stage - whether on the descent three-fold side or the ascent three-fold side or on the vortex.
This is how the theory holds up when studied. The most puzzling aspects are 1) the illusion that we exist currently with plants and animals that are evolving when the theory suggests these living things have moved on to live as kingdoms on their own globes, and 2) that involutional life waves exist that occupy the forms we associate with evolving lives just for the period of time that we occupy the globe - the angels act as our virtual worlds and ecological habitat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by brendatucker, posted 06-05-2008 4:38 PM brendatucker has not replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 137 of 145 (469776)
06-07-2008 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Blue Jay
06-06-2008 8:57 PM


Re: Materialism and Spirituality
One problem I have often had in using careful calculations about past time periods and future events is that the concept of monotheism may suffer.
If people love monotheism for the ease it provides to their brains, we will love it whether it is true or not. It relaxes our thinking into a moment of bliss.
If evolution predicts higher and higher forms in the future, couldn't we assume that an endless chain of life in front of us is a prediction of myriads of gods?
Reconciling all those time periods is tedious work. 4.5 billion years of having an earth doesn't compare well with 1 million for human life on this earth. That is one reason that I like the concept of rounds the lifewaves (kingdoms) follow each other consecutively around the 7 globes on a continuous basis until each kingdom has had 7 periods of existence on each of the globes. In that amount of time, the kingdom is able to advance to the next level of existence. 49 globe periods make an animal a man and a man into a new kingdom.
Because typically a path of spiritual living PROMISES that we will go beyond our fellows and enter into a higher level of existence, there is a contradiction in the material. Am I able to predict that the entire kingdom progresses together toward a goal of "adeptship" or "girasas" kingdom which will culminate on the 7th globe in the 7th round or am I willing to admit that a few brave seekers make it early - even now in the mere 4th time around on the 4th planet?
The controversy can be solved by understanding that the girasas kingdom penetrate our nature making it seem as if we can live as they do for a short time during the 6th race and then rip it away from us during the separation of the 7th race.
Why do you care so much about what is written in Genesis, which is told to us to be a representation of the beginning of the 5th root race? It is an important beginning to some because I have encountered literature that specifically wishes to apply the term human ONLY to the 5th root race where a 1st through 4th race would not ever be referred to as human. In this event, the form has little to do with the consciousness of the race as the 3rd through 5th races would all be very similar in appearance and build. The 3rd is immersed in saying goodbye to the animal. The 4th is struggling with its solitude and having reached the goal, whereas the 5th is bent on producing a place in their body, mind, heart, and the very particle of our being that can be used as a safehaven for the girasas. To get that higher kingdom grounded in us so we can climb the ladder towards this is paramount for a human. Everything below it is undeserving of the term.
These are questions that have to be decided by scientists. Scientists, as I see them, do not JUST search for the truth. They attempt to solve real problems that exist in current conditions on earth. We look to them to get us out of the "hot water" we are in.
What may happen is that scientists may prefer to exhaust their methods before admitting that the problems are beyond their scope of expertise, but before that happens, scientists can lead us towards a practical ability to work for an "ascension" of the human being.
What we learned in church last week was also Matthew. Matthew 5 contains the Beatitudes and it was discussed how the 10 Beatitudes are Jesus Christ's commandments and he says shortly after they are given that "If we love him, we will keep his commandments." He doesn't say to keep the commandments given by Moses. He says to keep his. What is curious when we compare the commandments to the Beatitudes is that we notice a sectioning of the 10 in this way: Moses' law is the first 4 are of God's relationship with man and the last 6 are man's relationships with each other. Beatitudes show first 4 as admonitions to help us live with lack. For example, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven." Then 3 are given in a more positive vein, encouraging mercy, purity, peace, and the last 3 refer to withstanding persecution due to 1) righteousness sake, 2) for God's sake, 3) as other prophets before you who reach the great reward in heaven.
The sectioning in this way shows me a forebearance of the negative occurrences, an appreciation for the positive occurrences, and a return to the forebearance of the negative. Down - Up - Down whereas the commandments are virtually higher to lower only. Still when we cause the same break in the commandments we notice one thing: The 4, followed by a breaking of the 6 into 3 and 3 show the 1st 3 referring to bodily processes such as honor thy father and mother, do not kill, and do not commit adultery, and the last 3 referring to physical objects and their use: Do not steal, lie or covet.
This got me pondering on how instrumental it may be for the humans who live on earth to reach an ascension not only with their beloved habitats (our plants and animals and elements can ascend with us), but also that we find a way to ascend our machines and our gadgets as they speak volumes about what humans are and our ideas of pleasure.
Can scientists help me to ponder out how all of this ascension can occur by turning the attention, not only to deciphering the communications that occur with a higher kingdom, but applying science to problems that are facing our race as it turns towards an ascension process and away from the descent of man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Blue Jay, posted 06-06-2008 8:57 PM Blue Jay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Coyote, posted 06-07-2008 1:47 PM brendatucker has not replied
 Message 141 by rueh, posted 07-16-2008 12:11 PM brendatucker has replied

  
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