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Author Topic:   Would Evolutionists accept evidence for Creation?
Admin
Director
Posts: 12620
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 76 of 85 (456838)
02-20-2008 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Rahvin
02-20-2008 10:56 AM


Re: Re-Flood
Rahvin writes:

Continuing to ignore the details that refute your position that science and the Bible agree demonstrates that you either cannot understand the subject matter, or you prefer to lie.

ICANT's participation here has been problematic for a while now. Whether his obvious sincerity is outweighed by what appears to be a willful need to misunderstand and misinterpret nearly everything hasn't yet been decided by the moderation team. Sorry to remain on the fence for so long, but in the meantime we request that members follow the Forum Guidelines by maintaining a civil tone. Maybe it would help to think of interactions with ICANT, Tesla and Hill Billy as psychology experiments rather than productive discussions. Thanks!


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Rahvin, posted 02-20-2008 10:56 AM Rahvin has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15370
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 77 of 85 (456880)
02-20-2008 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by ICANT
02-20-2008 7:55 AM


Re: Re-Flood
quote:

So you are agreeing that Pangea did exist.
You are also agreeing that the continents were formed by that one land mass dividing.

As you should already have known.

quote:

Does the Bible verses I quoted say there was a fast breakup?
They did say it happened.

That's your interpretation. You can't find one single clear explicit reference to this breakup. And if your interpretation was correct there should be one. Moreover it HAS to be quick to fit into the time.

quote:

Did they say it happened 5,000 years ago?
No.

Did I say it happened 5,000 years ago?
No.


In Message 57 you stated that Peleg was born around 2250 BC. That's within the timeframe I suggested. And you got that from the Bible. There may be uncertainties in that dating - which is why I allowed a broad range. But they are of the order of centuries, not tens or hundreds of millions of years.

quote:

Please explain how nations divided in the earth = earth was divided.

I stated that nations DIVIDED the Earth.

quote:

Was the land gathered in one place? OR
Was the water gathered in one place? OR
Was they both true?

This has no logical connection to the point. It is possible for one of them to be in one place and the other not. In all the diagrams the water appears to be in "one place", yet the land is not really in any of them - even in the first there are channels cutting off two land masses in the south.

quote:

The Bible does not mention rapid movement nor does it rule it out.

The Bible does not even mention the continents moving ! That is your scenario, and your scenario require the movement to be many times more rapid than the measured speeds.

quote:

You then say: "This is your idea."

Since I have not mentioned this and you are the only one who has, how can it be my idea?



Because it IS your idea. You're the one who said it happened in the lifetime of Peleg. And that means that it has to be fast.

quote:

1...Science theory is it broke up over 225 million years and is still moving.

2...Science does not say humanity did not exist 225 millions years ago. It does not say that it did either.



Science DOES say that there were no humans 225 million years ago (and no known mammals, even). Therefore science says that Peleg cannot have lived then, and so science denies that the breakup of Pangaea could have occurred in the lifetime of Peleg.

quote:

Number 2 above have no bearing on:

Science says all the water was in one place one time leaving all the land in one place.
The Bible saying all the water was in one place at one time leaving all the land in one place.


This is wholly wrong. Science does not say anything so silly as the idea that all the water being in "one place" means that all the land is in one place. Nor does the Bible (you really are determined to put your own errors into the Bible - I guess that the real Bible isn't inaccurate enough for you).

However the discussion is not about that. It is about your assertion that the "division" that occurred in the lifetime of Peleg refers to the breakup of Pangaea. As we have seen that is a dubious interpretaion that you have either invented or copied from someone else. THere is no real support for it in the Bible and in fact it is wholly incompatible with scientific understanding.


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onifre
Member (Idle past 1205 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 78 of 85 (457311)
02-22-2008 1:31 PM


Creationist always follow the same trend...

(1) First they deny such a thing is accurate...(Sun as the center, ever changing planet, descent with mods)

(2) Then they attack it...(trial of Galileo, witch hunts, Dover, PA)

(3) Finally they say, after much scientific work has been done, that it was in the Bible the WHOLE time they just didn't know how to read it yet.

Well you can thank science I guess for keeping these guys in the loop with their own faith however, they fail to make the correct connections with the time frames given by geologist.

My avatar is a picture of Pangea. Science says it was at one time.
Science says it separated into the continents we have today.

Genesis 1:9 says: "water gathered to one place rest called land."
Genesis 10:25 says: "earth was divided in Peleg's days."

Now you twist that any way you want too. It will still indicate the land was in one place and that the earth was divided (cleaved) in the days of Peleg.

The seperation of the Pangea 250 millions and a story about worlds dividing 5000 years ago do not correlate, you can make the assumption but, you're doing so after the facts of the Pangea were known. Before that it was just a story about something that literally happened 5000 years ago. Your connection between the two is a presumption ICANT.


All great truths begin as blasphemies
    
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1679 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 79 of 85 (458597)
03-01-2008 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by ICANT
02-19-2008 9:19 PM


Re: Re-Flood
ICANT writes:

Hi Jaderis,

I am not a YEC or ID creationist.

I was not trying to prove anything.

I made a simple statement.

But, yet you said this

ICANT writes: writes:

According to my Bible you will never find evidence as in a layer over the face of the earth.

The tenth and eleventh chapters of Genesis tells of the tower of babel. When there was one language and God confounded the language and scattered them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Then the earth was divided. Up until that time all the land mass was in one place. When the earth was divided the oceans were formed and the mountains were formed..

So no you will never see that record

No, you weren't trying to prove anything at all.

You were just sitting around waiting for someone else to "prove" it for you? And then you can grasp one phrase and claim it as your own. And in the meantime you can try to debunk the ToE and all of geology and all of anthropology and pretend that your one idea in your head will conquer all of the science done in the last 150 years and you refuse to accept the "briliant ideas" which have been thought about already?

Whether the Bible is true or false it states two things that science says happened. The Bible said it a long time before science had a clue.

Did the Bible people "have a clue? So the creation stories of (way before "science had a clue") of every other peoples who have been evidenced to have existed before your divine couple or those who don't agree with the Hebrew scriptures are false?

How? Why is the evidence from the early Hebrews more convincing than the evidence from the early Chinese?

How do you know this?


"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea


This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3893
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 80 of 85 (469538)
06-05-2008 11:23 PM


Bump
Because it needed to be bumped (see here)

Adminnemooseus


    
Dave101
Junior Member (Idle past 4026 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 81 of 85 (469540)
06-05-2008 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rahvin
01-03-2008 8:42 PM


a thought
What do you find on top of every mountain range on this planet? Even Mt. Everest has these... Can you tell me hoe the petrified clusters of sea shells such as clams ended up on top of these mountain ranges unless they were underwater?
Just asking...
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rahvin, posted 01-03-2008 8:42 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by obvious Child, posted 06-05-2008 11:33 PM Dave101 has not yet responded
 Message 83 by Coyote, posted 06-05-2008 11:33 PM Dave101 has not yet responded
 Message 84 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-05-2008 11:37 PM Dave101 has not yet responded
 Message 85 by RAZD, posted 06-05-2008 11:41 PM Dave101 has not yet responded

    
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2370 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 82 of 85 (469542)
06-05-2008 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Dave101
06-05-2008 11:27 PM


Re: a thought
You sound exactly like a troll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics


This message is a reply to:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 360 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 83 of 85 (469543)
06-05-2008 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Dave101
06-05-2008 11:27 PM


Re: a better thought
Are you going to regurgitate every silly creationist claim? One at a time?

If so, why don't you go to this website first:

Index to Creationist Claims, edited by Mark Isaak

You will find all of the common creationist claims, several hundred of them, refuted. You can then either not use those useless arguments, or at least come up with some better evidence for them--something that has not been refuted already.

Otherwise you are wasting our time and yours.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Dave101, posted 06-05-2008 11:27 PM Dave101 has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3893
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 84 of 85 (469545)
06-05-2008 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Dave101
06-05-2008 11:27 PM


Slow down there weedhopper
I think you might want to read more of this topic before you start posting wildly.

What do you find on top of every mountain range on this planet? Even Mt. Everest has these... Can you tell me hoe the petrified clusters of sea shells such as clams ended up on top of these mountain ranges unless they were underwater?

There's a topic currently at about 13 on the all topic list - Trilobites, Mountains and Marine Deposits - Evidence of a flood?.

And it's easy reading - Only 6 messages so far.

NO REPLIES TO THIS MESSAGE - DOING SUCH MAKE YOU SUBJECT TO A 24 HOUR POSTING PRIVILEGES SUSPENSION.

Adminnemooseus


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20111
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 85 of 85 (469546)
06-05-2008 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Dave101
06-05-2008 11:27 PM


Re: a thought
Hey, David101

What do you find on top of every mountain range on this planet? Even Mt. Everest has these... Can you tell me hoe the petrified clusters of sea shells such as clams ended up on top of these mountain ranges unless they were underwater?
Just asking...

Now go to Trilobites, Mountains and Marine Deposits - Evidence of a flood? and finish that thought.

Hint: they were underwater for a loooooong time, not just days.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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