Grizz responds to me:
quote:
You might want to actually look at the bills and voting records and not just repeat what you read on CNN.
(*chuckle*)
CNN? Why makes you think I'd be pulling from a conservative news channel like CNN? Yes, that's what I said. Conservative. There is no liberal media. Look who their commentators are. Glenn Beck. Lou Dobbs. Wolf Blitzer. Where are the liberals?
quote:
You are discussing packed Bills.
Typical conservative hogwash. Just what do you mean by "packed bills"? Be specific.
Take, for example, the Thune Amendment (Senate Amendment 3704 to House 4939). From the Senate's web site:
Statement of Purpose: To provide, with an offset, $20,000,000 for the Department of Veterans Affairs for Medical Facilities.
SA 3704. Mr. THUNE submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill H.R. 4939, making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2006, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:
On page 253, between lines 19 and 20, insert the following:
MEDICAL FACILITIES, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
SEC. 7032. (a) Availability of Amount.--There is appropriated for the Department of Veterans Affairs for the Veterans Health Administration for Medical Facilities, $20,000,000, with the entire amount designated as an emergency requirement pursuant to section 402 of H. Con. Res 95 (109th Congress), the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2006.
(b) Offset.--The amount appropriated by chapter 7 of title II of this Act under the heading ``National and Community Service Programs, Operating Expenses'' is hereby reduced by $20,000,000.
That's it. That's the entire amendment. Provide $20M to the VA to improve the medical facilities, the money to be paid for from the National Community Service Programs, Operating Expenses."
He voted against it,
5/4/06.
Where is the "packed bill" you're talking about?
Then there's the Akaka Amendment (Senate Amendment 3642 to HR 4939). From the Senate's web site:
Statement of Purpose: To provide an additional $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
SA 3642. Mr. AKAKA (for himself, Mrs. Murray, Mr. Kerry, Mr. Dayton, Ms. Stabenow, Mr. Menendez, Mr. Obama, Mr. Schumer, Mr. Dorgan, Ms. Landrieu, Ms. Mikulski, Mrs. Lincoln, Mr. Biden, Mr. Rockefeller, Mrs. Boxer, Mr. Reed, Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Lautenberg, Mr. Pryor, Mr. Johnson, and Mr. Durbin) proposed an amendment to the bill H.R. 4939, making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2006, and for other purposes; as follows:
On page 128, between lines 10 and 11, insert the following:
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
VETERANS HEALTH ADMINISTRATION
MEDICAL SERVICES
For an additional amount for ``Medical Services'' for necessary expenses for furnishing, as authorized by law, outpatient and inpatient care and treatment to beneficiaries of the Department of Veterans Affairs and veterans as described in paragraphs (1) through (8) of section 1705(a) of title 38, United States Code, including care and treatment in facilities not under the jurisdiction of the department and including medical supplies and equipment and salaries and expenses of healthcare employees hired under title 38, United States Code, and to aid State homes as authorized under section 1741 of title 38, United States Code, $430,000,000 plus reimbursements: Provided, That of the amount under this heading, $168,000,000 shall be available to address the needs of servicemembers in need of mental health care, including post-traumatic stress disorder: Provided further, That of the amount under this heading, $80,000,000 shall be available for the provision of readjustment counseling under section 1712A of title 38, United States Code (commonly referred to as ``Vet Centers''): Provided further, That of the amount under this heading $182,000,000 shall be available to meet current and pending care and treatment requirements: Provided further, That the amount under this heading shall remain available until expended: Provided further, That the amount provided under this heading is designated as an emergency requirement pursuant to section 402 of H. Con. Res. 95 (109th Congress), the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2006.
Again, that's it. That's the entire text. Provide $430M to the VA for various uses including $168M for PTSD, $80M for counseling at Vet Centers, and $182M to add to the fund to provide care for all vets.
He voted against it,
4/26/06. One of only 13 Senators to do so.
Where is the "packed bill" you're talking about?
And again, another Akaka Amendment (Senate Amendment 3007 to Senate Concurrent Resolution 83):
Statement of Purpose: To increase Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
SA 3007. Mr. AKAKA (for himself, Mrs. Murray, Mr. Dorgan, Mr. Nelson of Florida, Mr. Kerry, Mr. Schumer, Mr. Salazar, Mrs. Lincoln, Mr. Lautenberg, Mr. Obama, Mr. Dodd, Ms. Mikulski, and Mr. Jeffords) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the concurrent resolution S. Con. Res. 83, setting forth the congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2007 and including the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal years 2006 and 2008 through 2011; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:
On page 3, line 13, increase the amount by $1,350,000,000.
On page 3, line 15, increase the amount by $135,000,000.
On page 3, line 17, increase the amount by $6,000,000.
On page 3, line 19, increase the amount by $2,000,000.
On page 4, line 1, increase the amount by $1,350,000,000.
On page 4, line 2, increase the amount by $135,000,000.
On page 4, line 3, increase the amount by $6,000,000.
On page 4, line 4, increase the amount by $2,000,000.
On page 4, line 13, increase the amount by $1,500,000,000.
On page 5, line 4, increase the amount by $1,350,000,000.
On page 5, line 6, increase the amount by $135,000,000.
On page 5, line 8, increase the amount by $6,000,000.
On page 5, line 10, increase the amount by $2,000,000.
On page 23, line 24, increase the amount by $1,500,000,000.
On page 23, line 25, increase the amount by $1,350,000,000.
On page 24, line 4, increase the amount by $135,000,000.
On page 24, line 8, increase the amount by $6,000,000.
On page 24, line 12, increase the amount by $2,000,000.
On page 53, line 1, increase the amount by $1,500,000,000.
On page 53, line 2, increase the amount by $1,350,000,000.
That's it. That's the entire text. Note, McCain voted
FOR SCR 83. He just didn't want to increase the funding for the VA.
He voted against it,
3/14/06.
Where is this "packed bill" you're talking about?
And he did it previously to the Nelson Amendment: Senate Amendment 2745 to Senate Concurrent Resolution 95:
Statement of Purpose: To create a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes.
SA 2745. Mr. NELSON of Florida (for himself, Mr. CORZINE, Ms. MIKULSKI, Mr. SCHUMER, and Mr. NELSON of Nebraska) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the concurrent resolution S. Con. Res. 95, setting forth the congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2005 and including the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal years 2006 through 2009; as follows:
On page 3, line 9, increase the amount by $1,620,000,000.
[Page: S2569] On page 3, line 10, increase the amount by $162,000,000.
On page 3, line 11, increase the amount by $7,000,000.
On page 3, line 12, increase the amount by $2,000,000.
On page 3, line 17, increase the amount by $1,620,000,000.
On page 3, line 18, increase the amount by $162,000,000.
On page 3, line 19, increase the amount by $7,000,000.
On page 3, line 20, increase the amount by $2,000,000.
On page 4, line 20, increase the amount by $1,620,000,000.
On page 4, line 21, increase the amount by $162,000,000.
On page 4, line 22, increase the amount by $7,000,000.
On page 4, line 23, increase the amount, by $2,000,000.
On page 5, line 3, decrease the amount by $1,620,000,000.
On page 5, line 4, decrease the amount by $1,782,000,000.
On page 5, line 5, decrease the amount by $1,789,000,000.
On page 5, line 6, decrease the amount by $1,791,000,000.
On page 5, line 7, decrease the amount by $1,791,000,000.
On page 5, line 11, decrease the amount by $1,620,000,000.
On page 5, line 12, decrease the amount by $1,782,000,000.
On page 5, line 13, decrease the amount by $1,789,000,000.
On page 5, line 14, decrease the amount by $1,791,000,000.
On page 5, line 15, decrease the amount by $1,791,000,000.
At the end of Title III, insert the following:
SEC. . RESERVE FUND FOR VETERANS' MEDICAL CARE.
The Chairman of the Committee on the Budget of the Senate shall revise the aggregates, functional totals, allocations to the Committee on Appropriations of the Senate, discretionary spending limits, and other appropriate levels and limits in this resolution by up to $1,800,000,000 in budget authority for fiscal year 2005, and by the amount of outlays flowing therefrom in 2005 and subsequent years, for a bill, joint resolution, motion, amendment, or conference report that provides additional fiscal year 2005 discretionary appropriations, in excess of levels provided in this resolution, for veterans' medical programs, included in this resolution for the Department of Veterans Affairs.
That's it. That's the entire text of the amendment. Note, McCain voted
FOR SCR 95. He just didn't want to increase the funding for the VA.
He voted against it,
3/10/04. One of only 13 Senators to do so.
Where is the "packed bill" you're talking about?
Here's the Webb Amendment, Senate Amendment 2909 to Senate Amendment 2011 to House Bill 1585:
Statement of Purpose: To specify minimum periods between deployment of units and members of the Armed Forces deployed for Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom.
SA 2909. Mr. WEBB (for himself, Mr. REID, Mr. HAGEL, Mr. LEVIN, Ms. SNOWE, Mr. SMITH, Mr. OBAMA, Mrs. CLINTON, Mr. BYRD, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. SALAZAR, Mr. HARKIN, Mr. BROWN, Mrs. LINCOLN, Ms. KLOBUCHAR, Mr. DODD, Mr. BIDEN, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. KERRY, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. TESTER, Mrs. MCCASKILL, Mr. SCHUMER, Mr. PRYOR, Mr. SANDERS, Ms. MIKULSKI, Ms. CANTWELL, Ms. STABENOW, Ms. LANDRIEU, Mr. JOHNSON, Mr. CARPER, Mr. ROCKEFELLER, Mrs. MURRAY, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. AKAKA, Mr. MENENDEZ, Mrs. BOXER, and Mr. WYDEN) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 2011 proposed by Mr. NELSON of Nebraska (for Mr. LEVIN) to the bill H.R. 1585, to authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2008 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes; as follows:
At the end of subtitle C of title X, add the following:
SEC. 1031. MINIMUM PERIODS BETWEEN DEPLOYMENT FOR UNITS AND MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES DEPLOYED FOR OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM AND OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM.
(a) Findings.--Congress makes the following findings:
(1) Congress expresses its grateful thanks to the men and women of the Armed Forces of the United States for having served their country with great distinction under enormously difficult circumstances since September 11, 2001.
(2) The all-volunteer force of the Armed Forces of the United States is bearing a disproportionate share of national wartime sacrifice, and, as stewards of this national treasure, Congress must not place that force at unacceptable risk.
(3) The men and women members of the Armed Forces of the United States and their families are under enormous strain from multiple, extended combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.
(4) Extended, high-tempo deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan have adversely affected the readiness of non-deployed Army and Marine Corps units, thereby jeopardizing their capability to respond quickly and effectively to other crises or contingencies in the world, and complicating the all-volunteer policy of recruitment, as well as the retention, of career military personnel.
(5) Optimal time between operational deployments, commonly described as ``dwell time'', is critically important to allow members of the Armed Forces to readjust from combat operations, bond with families and friends, generate more predictable operational tempos, and provide sufficient time for units to retrain, reconstitute, and assimilate new members.
(6) It is the goal of the Armed Forces of the United States to achieve an optimal minimum period between the previous deployment of a unit or member of a regular component of the Armed Forces and a subsequent deployment of such a unit or member that is equal to or longer than twice the period of such previous deployment, commonly described as a 1:2 deployment-to-dwell ratio.
(7) It is the goal of the Department of Defense that units and members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces of the United States should not be mobilized continuously for more than one year, and that a period of five years should elapse between the previous deployment of such a unit or member and a subsequent deployment of such unit or member.
(8) In support of continuous operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other contested areas, the Army has been required to deploy units and members to Iraq for 15 months with a 12-month dwell-time period between deployments, resulting in a less than 1:1 deployment-to-dwell ratio.
(9) In support of continuous operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other contested areas, the Marine Corps currently is deploying units and members to Iraq for approximately seven months, with a seven-month dwell-time period between deployments, but it is not unusual for selected units and members of the Marine Corps to be deployed with less than a 1:1 deployment-to-dwell ratio.
(10) In support of continuous operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other contested areas, the Department of Defense has relied upon the reserve components of the Armed Forces of the United States to a degree that is unprecedented in the history of the all-volunteer force. Units and members of the reserve components are frequently mobilized and deployed for periods beyond the stated goals of the Department.
(11) The Commander of the Multi-National Force-Iraq recently testified to Congress that he would like Soldiers, Marines, and other forces have more time with their families between deployments, a reflection of his awareness of the stress and strain placed on United States ground forces, in particular, and on other high-demand, low-density assets, by operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
(b) Minimum Period for Units and Members of the Regular Components.--
(1) IN GENERAL.--No unit or member of the Armed Forces specified in paragraph (3) may be deployed for Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom (including participation in the NATO International Security Assistance Force (Afghanistan)) unless the period between the deployment of the unit or member is equal to or longer than the period of such previous deployment.
(2) SENSE OF CONGRESS ON OPTIMAL MINIMUM PERIOD BETWEEN DEPLOYMENTS.--It is the sense of Congress that the optimal minimum period between the previous deployment of a unit or member of the Armed Forces specified in paragraph (3) to Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom and a subsequent deployment of the unit or member to Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom should be equal to or longer than twice the period of such previous deployment.
(3) COVERED UNITS AND MEMBERS.--The units and members of the Armed Forces specified in this paragraph are as follows:
(A) Units and members of the regular Army.
(B) Units and members of the regular Marine Corps.
(C) Units and members of the regular Navy.
(D) Units and members of the regular Air Force.
(E) Units and members of the regular Coast Guard.
(c) Minimum Period for Units and Members of the Reserve Components.--
(1) IN GENERAL.--No unit or member of the Armed Forces specified in paragraph (3) may be deployed for Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom (including participation in the NATO International Security Assistance Force (Afghanistan)) if the unit or member has been deployed at any time within the three years preceding the date of the deployment covered by this subsection.
(2) SENSE OF CONGRESS ON MOBILIZATION AND OPTIMAL MINIMUM PERIOD BETWEEN DEPLOYMENTS.--It is the sense of Congress that--
(A) the units and members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces should not be mobilized continuously for more than one year; and
(B) the optimal minimum period between the previous deployment of a unit or member of the Armed Forces specified in paragraph (3) to Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom and a subsequent deployment of the unit or member to Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom should be five years.
(3) COVERED UNITS AND MEMBERS.--The units and members of the Armed Forces specified in this paragraph are as follows:
(A) Units and members of the Army Reserve.
(B) Units and members of the Army National Guard.
(C) Units and members of the Marine Corps Reserve.
(D) Units and members of the Navy Reserve.
(E) Units and members of the Air Force Reserve.
(F) Units and members of the Air National Guard.
(G) Units and members of the Coast Guard Reserve.
[Page: S11760] (d) Inapplicability to Special Operations Forces.--The limitations in subsections (b) and (c) shall not apply with respect to forces that are considered special operations forces for purposes of section 167(i) of title 10, United States Code.
(e) Waiver by the President.--The President may waive the limitation in subsection (b) or (c) with respect to the deployment of a unit or member of the Armed Forces specified in such subsection if the President certifies to Congress that the deployment of the unit or member is necessary to meet an operational emergency posing a threat to vital national security interests of the United States.
(f) Waiver by Miliary Chief of Staff or Commandant for Voluntary Mobilizations.--
(1) ARMY.--With respect to the deployment of a member of the Army who has voluntarily requested mobilization, the limitation in subsection (b) or (c) may be waived by the Chief of Staff of the Army (or the designee of the Chief of Staff of the Army).
(2) NAVY.--With respect to the deployment of a member of the Navy who has voluntarily requested mobilization, the limitation in subsection (b) or (c) may be waived by the Chief of Naval Operations (or the designee of the Chief of Naval Operations).
(3) MARINE CORPS.--With respect to the deployment of a member of the Marine Corps who has voluntarily requested mobilization, the limitation in subsection (b) or (c) may be waived by the Commandant of the Marine Corps (or the designee of the Commandant of the Marine Corps).
(4) AIR FORCE.--With respect to the deployment of a member of the Air Force who has voluntarily requested mobilization, the limitation in subsection (b) or (c) may be waived by the Chief of Staff of the Air Force (or the designee of the Chief of Staff of the Air Force).
(5) COAST GUARD.--With respect to the deployment of a member of the Coast Guard who has voluntarily requested mobilization, the limitation in subsection (b) or (c) may be waived by the Commandant of the Coast Guard (or the designee of the Commandant of the Coast Guard).
(g) Effective Date.--In order to afford the Department of Defense sufficient time to plan and organize the implementation of the provisions of this section, the provisions of this section shall go into effect 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.
That's it. That's the entire text. Extend the leave given to units coming back from Iraq, including provisions that they can be waived by the President or Chief of Staff. Note, while McCain voted against the amendment,
9/19/2007, he skipped the vote on SAmdt 2011 which overwhelmingly passed, 89-6.
Where is the "packed bill" you're talking about?
Do I need to go on? Do I need to provide you the exact text of every single bill McCain has ever voted for in order for you to start paying attention to the fact that McCain is not the Servicemember's friend?
What about his vote to table Senate Amendment 1817 that would have provided $322M in safety equipment?
Statement of Purpose: To provide an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.
SA 1817. Mr. DODD (for himself and Mr. CORZINE) proposed an amendment to the bill S. 1689, making emergency supplemental appropriations for Iraq and Afghanistan security and reconstruction for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2004, and for other purposes; as follows:
On page 2, line 20, strike ``$24,946,464,000:'' and insert ``$25,268,464,000, of which $322,000,000 shall be available to provide safety equipment through the Rapid Fielding Initiative and the Iraqi Battlefield Clearance program:''.
On page 25, line 10, strike ``$5,136,000,000'' and insert ``$4,884,000,000''.
On page 25, line 16, strike ``$353,000,000'' and insert ``$283,000,000''.
He voted to table the amendment,
10/2/2003.
Is that a "packed bill"?
Why do I know this stuff but you don't? You say you trust him, but you haven't done one lick of research into his voting record, have you?
Now, Obama isn't perfect. On the $20M supplement, Obama voted against it, too. But, he voted for the $430M increase to the VA as well as the $1.5B increase and the increased rest time.
quote:
If one wants to fish, it is easy to listen to partisan soundbites that equate one line-item in a bill with the bill itself.
Except that isn't what's going on. These are individual line items, specific amendments of individual things that McCain voted
against to a bill that he voted
for.
Why do you not know this? Why did you simply assume that I was plying the Republican trick of confusing every vote on a bill with independent votes, with votes on amendments as votes on the bill? That's what conservatives do, Grizz.
Not me.
Hie thee to the Senate web site and actually look up McCain's voting record.
And by the by: The Washington Post? You actually trust them? That's a lovely little database they provided of votes, but it doesn't actually say anything other than X voted Y on bill/amendment/resolution Z. You're the one claiming that some sort of shenannigans is going on claiming that he was voting against a "packed bill." That database doesn't provide you the text of the bill for you to be able to say that it was "packed" or not nor does it even provide a link to the actual text for you to find out.
And regarding your VA Watchdog site, didn't you read your own source?
McCAIN AND REPUBLICANS OFFER THEIR VERSION OF A NEW G.I. BILL -- McCain's version called a "pale shadow" of new G.I. Bill offered by Sen. Jim Webb.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of McCain. But let's go further (
McCAIN PROMISE WOULD DISMANTLE VA AND PRIVATIZE VETERANS' HEALTHCARE -- "I'm going to get every one of our veterans a plastic card to take to their doctor or healthcare provider to get the care they need.":
Up to now, Republican and Democratic presidential candidates have steered away from controversy when it comes to veterans' issues.
That all changed when Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) promised healthcare cards to all veterans to use where they wish. McCain said: "I'm going to get every one of our veterans a plastic card to take to their doctor or healthcare provider to get the care they need."
We only have to look at a little bit of history to see where this would go.
Military retirees were told they would get lifetime healthcare at military hospitals. As bases (and the hospitals) were closed, retirees found themselves with a "plastic card" that says TRICARE on it.
So retirees have found themselves stuck in a HMO. Many pay outrageous deductibles and co-pays. And, because TRICARE reimbursement is tied to Medicare reimbursement, many TRICARE card holders have a difficult time finding doctors and hospitals that will accept their "plastic card."
If McCain's promise becomes a reality we would see the doors to VA hospitals and clinics closed...and, once closed, they would never be reopened, just like the military hospitals.
If McCain's promise becomes a reality we would see veterans scrambling from doctor to hospital trying to find someone who would take their "plastic card" on the expectation of low reimbursement and slow reimbursement.
And, if McCain's promise becomes a reality we can expect to see veterans paying to belong to this "VA HMO."
Let us hope that Sen. McCain rethinks his position on veterans' healthcare. If he doesn't...we can expect a veterans' healthcare disaster of epic proportions.
Did you bother to read your own source?
Rrhain
Thank you for your submission to
Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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