The Prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel

It mentions the Messiah, and the timeframe. How many others were there at that time?

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Of course I do. It's the mainstream opinion of Biblical scholars based on the fact that Daniel is dodgy on the 6th Century BC, and inaccurate on events after ~162 BC. As well as other poitns such as the lack of any clear references to the "Biblical" Daniel in earlier texts.

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See Early Jewish Writings for examples, plus links to sites on various sides of the issue.

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your link..
"This dating is based upon two assumptions: first, that the authors lived at the later end of the historical surveys that characterize Daniel 7-12; and second, that prophecy is accurate only when it is given after the fact, whereas predictions about the future tend to run astray. Based upon these assumptions, "Those are wild leaps of faith, based on wishful lack of thinking.

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Daniel didn't predict Jesus. All the rest are not predictions because they happened BEFORE Daniel wrote.

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--Because you assume it had to be that way, not good enough!!! Seeing the unwinnable position naysayers have, that is the only recourse -baseless denial.

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And Daniel's only "prediction" about Rome is that the Republic "would" (i.e. already had) interfere with Antiochus' attack on Egypt. The 4th Empire is Greek.

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Well, no, not at all. There are many places in that book that refer to it, in some detail, as a matter of fact. The trademarks of Greece and other kingdoms are clearly given, in several places.Are you suggesting Rome went to 4 generals, by the way, and that some great king smacked down Medo Persia from that empire??

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I know that the 4th Empire is Greek because Daniel describes the Greek empire in a way that matches the 4th Empire. Nowhere does he describe the Roman Empire. More importantly the End Time vision of Daniel 8 (8:17, 8:19) is clearly about a Greek ruler (8:21-22)

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The order of kingdoms is clear, as in Dan 2, you might notice Rome was the 2 legs there. It was right under Greece, which was under Medo Persia, etc.Not sure where you think you are going here.

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Yet you make that claim in the OP. And then you make it again in the next post. Whether you need to or not you DO make that claim. But you don't have any valid grounds to do so. (And we haven't gone into the fiddling of the start date or the fact that the article you linked to falsely claims that the Jewish year is 360 days to fiddle the calculation further. Try looking up a Jewish calendar if you don't believe me).

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So, how far from the time of Jesus do you think you can put it, using whatever months you want??

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And one more point about the seventy weeks. The final week doesn't fit. If the end of the 69th week is the crucifixion, the end of the 70th week must come 7 years later - somewhere around 40 AD. But none of the events of the 70th week happen then. How did Daniel get all that wrong ?

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No, because it is clear that the last week of Daniel is in the latter time. Notice that Israel never stopped their transgressions when Jesus came. To put an end to that, it was going to take some time. When the final week kicks in, and the clock resumes for the history of that country, that is the last seven years of man's rule on earth. The amazing proofs of the first 69 weeks show that the things that are said to be going to happen in the last seven years are also bang on! Edited by starman, : No reason given.

Does it? How does it mention the time frame?The choice of the 'beginning' of the time frame is arbitrary, the ending time frame is assumed. For example, the date at least one prophecy solution assumes it the right date is april 6th 32. Prove that is the
date that Jesus entered Jerusalum, using scripture, and historical sources.And, I bet I can find at least one source that will disagree.And, I find it very amusing that you have to have the clock of the last week 'stop' and then resume at a later time. It really is a tortured solution to try to make things fit.Edited by ramoss, : No reason given.

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Does it? How does it mention the time frame?

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The choice of the 'beginning' of the time frame is arbitrary, the ending time frame is assumed. For example, the date at least one prophecy solution assumes it the right date is april 6th 32. Prove that is the
date that Jesus entered Jerusalum, using scripture, and historical sources.

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The date, as far as I am concerned need not be to the day. The opinion of the site I used was to the day, yes, but I never really looked at that part. If it is to the year, then we have a case of a missing Messiah!! If you think it wasn't the One that was here at the time, where was He?? The time from the proclamation to the time of Jesus is the only one that fits.Coincidence??

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And, I bet I can find at least one source that will disagree.

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And, I find it very amusing that you have to have the clock of the last week 'stop' and then resume at a later time. It really is a tortured solution to try to make things fit.

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I don't make it stop. The prophesy gave it in a sequence for a reason. The final seven year period is a very very important time. It is the subject of hundreds and hundreds of other prophesies. For example, the one I think I mentioned in the OP (unless I left it out in the shortened thread OP version) was Eze 38, 39!!! Then we can also look at the Olivet discourse, and revelations, minor prophets, and etc.There is a reason that seven years is special!!!!! No accident at all, that it stands out at the end as a separate deal. But it is part of the 70 weeks, because it deals in the fate of the Jews, especially the remnant.So, this prophesy puts us right smack dab in the time of Christ. That is astounding! No need to harp on nats, and opinions about certain days at all. It is what it is.
Be amazed. And, when the bible is referred to in a science forum, take off your hat, and pay attention. It is evidence!

I didn't ask this question.I asked, where does the author of Daniel mention Jesus?There was no Messiah at the time you are talking about.

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your link..
"This dating is based upon two assumptions: first, that the authors lived at the later end of the historical surveys that characterize Daniel 7-12; and second, that prophecy is accurate only when it is given after the fact, whereas predictions about the future tend to run astray. Based upon these assumptions, "

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Those are wild leaps of faith, based on wishful lack of thinking.

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It's from ONE of the books quoted in the link. A book published by The Society of Biblical LiteratureTry reading the rest.

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--Because you assume it had to be that way, not good enough!!! Seeing the unwinnable position naysayers have, that is the only recourse -baseless denial.

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I don't notice you producing any real arguments.

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Well, no, not at all. There are many places in that book that refer to it, in some detail, as a matter of fact. The trademarks of Greece and other kingdoms are clearly given, in several places.

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So where are all these clear references to Rome ?

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Are you suggesting Rome went to 4 generals, by the way, and that some great king smacked down Medo Persia from that empire??

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Certainly not. YOU are saying that references to Greece are really references to Rome, not me.

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The order of kingdoms is clear, as in Dan 2, you might notice Rome was the 2 legs there. It was right under Greece, which was under Medo Persia, etc.

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So your argument that the 4th Empire is Rome - is to assert that the 4th Empire is Rome. With no evidence. No, there is nothing in Daniel 2 that clearly identifies the 4th Empire as Rome.

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Not sure where you think you are going here.

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I'm pointing out evidence, in Daniel that supports my views. You should try it.Since you don't understand lets look at the two points: When Daniel talks about the Greeks he describes them as being like the 4th Empire of Daniel 2. For instance the division of the Greek Empire is clearly mentioned (more than once); Daniel doesn;t talk about Rome in that way.So which is more likely - that the 4th Empire is one that Daniel describes as being divided, or an Empire that he hardly mentions ? Daniel 8 is about the End Times. The dominant Empire of that time is the Greek Empire. The ruler who will conquer Jerusalem, and end the Jewish sacrifices in those times is a Greek ruler, from one of the Kingdoms set up by Alexander's generals. There are no Romans in sight.So if the Greeks are still in charge in the End Times, Daniel allows no room for any later Empires. The 4th and last Empire before the Kingdom of God is Greek. Daniel says so - or rather Daniel says that his vision, as interpreted by the angel Gabriel says so.

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So, how far from the time of Jesus do you think you can put it, using whatever months you want??

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I don't want to use any months. Really you should use a 365 day year because the Jews (and pretty much everyone else who uses a Lunar calendar) vary the length of the year to keep their calenedar from drifting too far from the solar year. More often than every seven years, too.The point I think that Daniel meant to be the start date is 49 years before the decree of Cyrus (the first messiah of the prophecy - Isaiah 45:1). That puts it in 588 BC.
Using ordinary years, that puts the end of the 69th week at 98 BC.
If I wanted to use the 354 day Jewish year I can lose another 15 years, putting it at 113 BC. But I don't want to do that.

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No, because it is clear that the last week of Daniel is in the latter time.

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Which is around 160 BC according to Daniel.

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Notice that Israel never stopped their transgressions when Jesus came. To put an end to that, it was going to take some time. When the final week kicks in, and the clock resumes for the history of that country, that is the last seven years of man's rule on earth

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Daniel doesn't say anything about the clock stopping. He says that they have seventy weeks, and that's it. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

How embarrassing is it when one moron gives another moron support over something that is clearly an utter mess?No wonder something as stupid as Christianity has survived so long when it is only mindless, moronic robots that can believe in it.Time after time, at this site and others, as well as real time, we encounter adults who have the reasoning skills of a five year old.Why don't these people ever study the Bible in a serious academic context?Does anyone else get so bored with refuting these ludicrous 'prophecies' that they cannot be arsed anymore but feel you have to refute it because these retards will think it is a genuine prophecy?What is wrong with an adult who can accept garbage like this without any critical analysis at all?Edited by Brian, : spelling

What is the earliest extant text of 'Daniel'?

If you want to make it fit, it will fit, no matter what.I don't even think you got the right decade, and the torturous spaghetti reasoning to get to the 70'th week by 'stopping the clock' so to speak makes it totally off.

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your link..
"This dating is based upon two assumptions: first, that the authors lived at the later end of the historical surveys that characterize Daniel 7-12; and second, that prophecy is accurate only when it is given after the fact, whereas predictions about the future tend to run astray. Based upon these assumptions, "

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Those are wild leaps of faith, based on wishful lack of thinking.

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It's from ONE of the books quoted in the link. A book published by The Society of Biblical Literature

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Try reading the rest.

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I don't care who thinks it is clever, or not. The gist of the claims were laid bare there, and you better support them, or lose them.

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I don't notice you producing any real arguments.

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I think that the amazing prophesies speak for themselves. You can't belittle that.

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So where are all these clear references to Rome ?

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The kingdom that followed Greece, the legs of iron, on the image.Or here.Dan 7 :6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. (Greece)7 “After these things, as I was watching in the night visions a fourth beast appeared - one dreadful, terrible, and very strong. It had two large rows of iron teeth. It devoured and crushed, and anything that was left it trampled with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that came before it, and it had ten horns.The one AFTER Greece was, --what?? Rome. Correct.Also, when we get to the time of the end of the 69 set of seven years, that is when Messiah gets cut off. The kingdom that exited then has to be the one!Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;If you recall, the temple was destroyed. Another astounding, fantastic prediction, impossible for man to arrange or know centuries in advance.

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So your argument that the 4th Empire is Rome - is to assert that the 4th Empire is Rome. With no evidence. No, there is nothing in Daniel 2 that clearly identifies the 4th Empire as Rome.

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It, unlike Persia, and Greece was not named, but it followed an order. After Greece was when it was to be. The time of Messiah was the time, and the rest is history!

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Since you don't understand lets look at the two points:

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Daniel describes the Greek empire in a way that matches the 4th Empire

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When Daniel talks about the Greeks he describes them as being like the 4th Empire of Daniel 2. For instance the division of the Greek Empire is clearly mentioned (more than once); Daniel doesn;t talk about Rome in that way.

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It does have two legs. That is nice, since it was not divided by four generals like Greece was."In 286ad, the emperor Diocletian divided the Roman Empire into East and West for administrative purposes. This was symbolized by the “two legs” described in Daniel 2."
Beast~2)Three Horns « Word For It. . .So, apparently Rome was divided into the two legs.

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So which is more likely - that the 4th Empire is one that Daniel describes as being divided, or an Empire that he hardly mentions ?

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In fact it spells out who the first ones are, so your confusuion is unjustifiable!Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

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the End Time vision of Daniel 8 (8:17, 8:19) is clearly about a Greek ruler (8:21-22)

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No. All that is pointing out is that the last vile king will come from one of the divisions (four divisions) of the Greek empire!!! Nothing to do with the legs of Iron, or the bear, etc, which are quite clear if you look at the bible, and book, as a whole.

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So if the Greeks are still in charge in the End Times, Daniel allows no room for any later Empires. The 4th and last Empire before the Kingdom of God is Greek. Daniel says so - or rather Daniel says that his vision, as interpreted by the angel Gabriel says so.

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Ludicous, and ignorant of the rest of the book, that gives context. It is clear that there were not just Greece, and the others, but that the last one would break them in pieces as iron.

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I don't want to use any months. Really you should use a 365 day year because the Jews (and pretty much everyone else who uses a Lunar calendar) vary the length of the year to keep their calenedar from drifting too far from the solar year. More often than every seven years, too.

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"It is clear from these texts that the 3 year period equaled 42 months or 1,260 days. Simple arithmetic yields a 360 day year. In other words, for purposes of this prophecy, a "year" is 360 calendar years long. The D/F’s insist that this proves that all of the 1,260 years of the prophecy are also 360 days long. They make a similar argument regarding the 490 years in Daniel’s 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24. The essential claim is that a Jewish year is 360 days (12 months of 30 days) long, and the both the Jews and they understand it.The foundation of the D/F claim is the 30 day Jewish month. Unfortunately, from the very beginning, the D/F’s are wrong. While the Jewish month is a nominal 30 days long, it is not exactly 30 days long. The Jewish month is a lunar month, beginning on the first day that the new moon is seen. When the new moon was observed, the Sanhedrin was notified. When the committee (three members, including the High Priest) heard testimony from two independent, reliable eyewitnesses that the new moon occurred at a certain time, they would declare the rosh chodesh (first of the month) and send out messengers to tell people when the month began. This method of determining the rosh chodesh means that it is very possible for the month to begin a day or two late if the weather prevents a good view of the sky. The Jews understood this, and allowed the previous month to go up to two days extra, then forced the new month to start whether the moon was seen or not.Immediately we can see that Jewish months are variable in length. However, celestial events are not variable in their timing. The fundamental clock of the Jewish month, the moon, operates on a 29 day (actually 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, and 3 1/3 seconds) cycle. Note that this rounds off to 30 days, hence the 30 day months in the prophecy above. But, since the cycle is not 30 days, it starts a day early every other month."http://www.bibleonly.org/proph/dan/prem3.html

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The point I think that Daniel meant to be the start date is 49 years before the decree of Cyrus (the first messiah of the prophecy - Isaiah 45:1). That puts it in 588 BC.
Using ordinary years, that puts the end of the 69th week at 98 BC.
If I wanted to use the 354 day Jewish year I can lose another 15 years, putting it at 113 BC. But I don't want to do that.

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You think the decree of the king who was named a century and a half before he was born, or some such is to be tossed aside? Well, why do you think that?

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Which is around 160 BC according to Daniel.

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No, only your weird attempts to mangle the years leave that fantasy as a possibility in your head. So, was the temple destroyed then!!!? Got you there! There are cross checks and balances, so cherry pickers can be kept in line!

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Daniel doesn't say anything about the clock stopping. He says that they have seventy weeks, and that's it.

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No? Well, then I guess the prophesy was wrong, the time came and went, and none showed up?! No. You just don't like Him. The 69 times seven year time period came and went, any way you shake it. Billions of people have known who it was.
You would need more than wishful thinking.

This brings out a few interesting points." 1. To avoid fulfillment of long-range predictive prophecy in the book, the adherents of the late-date view usually maintain that the four empires of chs. 2 and 7 are Babylon, Media, Persia and Greece. But in the mind of the author, “the Medes and Persians” (5:28; see note there) together constituted the second in the series of four kingdoms (2:32-43; see note there). Thus it becomes clear that the four empires are the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman. See chart, p. 1777.
2. Archaeological InformationThe language itself argues for a date earlier than the second century. Linguistic evidence from the Dead Sea Scrolls (which furnish authentic samples of Hebrew and Aramaic writing from the third and second centuries b.c.; see essay, p. 1939) demonstrates that the Hebrew and Aramaic chapters of Daniel must have been composed centuries earlier. Furthermore, as recently demonstrated, the Persian and Greek words in Daniel do not require a late date. Some of the technical terms appearing in ch. 3 were already so obsolete by the second century b.c. that translators of the Septuagint (the pre-Christian Greek translation of the OT) translated them incorrectly.
3. Several of the fulfillments of prophecies in Daniel could not have taken place by the second century anyway, so the prophetic element cannot be dismissed. The symbolism connected with the fourth kingdom makes it unmistakably predictive of the Roman empire (see 2:33; 7:7,19), which did not take control of Syro-Palestine until 63 b.c. Also, a plausible interpretation of the prophecy concerning the coming of “the Anointed One, the ruler,” approximately 483 years after “the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem” (9:25; see note on 9:25-27), works out to the time of Jesus’ ministry.Objective evidence, therefore, appears to exclude the late-date hypothesis and indicates that there is insufficient reason to deny Daniel’s authorship."Attention Required! | Cloudflare

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I don't care who thinks it is clever, or not. The gist of the claims were laid bare there, and you better support them, or lose them

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Picking and choosing quotes doesn't make your position more correct. Indeed it means that you are leaving out relevent information.

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I think that the amazing prophesies speak for themselves. You can't belittle that.

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You'd have to show that there are amazing prophecies first.

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The kingdom that followed Greece, the legs of iron, on the image.

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You are attempting to refute my argument that the 4th Kingdom is Greece by assuming that the 4th Kingdom is Rome. That just begs the question.

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Dan 7 :6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. (Greece)

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7 “After these things, as I was watching in the night visions a fourth beast appeared - one dreadful, terrible, and very strong. It had two large rows of iron teeth. It devoured and crushed, and anything that was left it trampled with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that came before it, and it had ten horns.

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The one AFTER Greece was, --what?? Rome. Correct.

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Again you're just assuming your answer.Neither is a CLEAR reference to Rome.

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Also, when we get to the time of the end of the 69 set of seven years, that is when Messiah gets cut off. The kingdom that exited then has to be the one!

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Therefore it IS Greece ! (OK Daniel got the numbers of years wrong, but that one's about Antiochus).

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Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

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That's the prophecy that you said hasn't happened yet. (Again, it's about Antiochus)

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It, unlike Persia, and Greece was not named, but it followed an order. After Greece was when it was to be. The time of Messiah was the time, and the rest is history!

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And the end is Greece. The point that you are missing is that it takes evidence to decide which kingdom is which. You aren't doing that, you're just assuming that you're right.

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It does have two legs. That is nice, since it was not divided by four generals like Greece was.

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It would do if Daniel had made a point of the division being into two.
But he doesn't. Nor does he mention an Empire beign divided into two. The only Empire he mentions as being divided - is the Greek Empire.

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In fact it spells out who the first ones are, so your confusuion is unjustifiable!

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But I'm not confused. I just don't agree with your opinions.

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No. All that is pointing out is that the last vile king will come from one of the divisions (four divisions) of the Greek empire!!! Nothing to do with the legs of Iron, or the bear, etc, which are quite clear if you look at the bible, and book, as a whole.

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Provided you ignore the point that the prophecy is explicitly stated to be a prophecy of the End Times.

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Ludicous, and ignorant of the rest of the book, that gives context.

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Unfortunately for you looking at the rest of the book and using that context is precisely what I am doing. In short your statement precisely describes your own situation.

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"It is clear from these texts that the 3 year period equaled 42 months or 1,260 days. Simple arithmetic yields a 360 day year. In other words, for purposes of this prophecy, a "year" is 360 calendar years long.

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Aside from the fact that you fail to even explain which texts supposedly show this, it is simply untrue.

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The essential claim is that a Jewish year is 360 days (12 months of 30 days) long, and the both the Jews and they understand it.

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And that claim is false. The Jewish year is typically 354 days long, but every 3 years or so an extra month is added to keep the calendar from getting too far out of sync with the solar year.

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You think the decree of the king who was named a century and a half before he was born, or some such is to be tossed aside? Well, why do you think that?

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Nothing that I have actually said suggests any such thing.

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No, only your weird attempts to mangle the years leave that fantasy as a possibility in your head. So, was the temple destroyed then!!!? Got you there! There are cross checks and balances, so cherry pickers can be kept in line!

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If you read in context you will see that the Temple is still operating in Daniel 12:27, until the sacrifice is banned (which Antiochus did do) and the Temple is profaned by the "abomination" (which Antiochus did do). So Daniel 12:26 cannot mean complete destruction, until the end (which didn't come at all). So I would say that the "destruction" of 12:26 refers to Antiochus' raid of the Temple as mentioned in 1 Maccabees 1:21-24

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Picking and choosing quotes doesn't make your position more correct. Indeed it means that you are leaving out relevent information.

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Well, what is it you think is left out or relevent, that isn't pure made up opinion?!

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You'd have to show that there are amazing prophecies first.

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Let's see you predict the next four world powers, and the year till Messiah, and the countries that will attck a country that no longer existed, thousands of years in the future!!

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You are attempting to refute my argument that the 4th Kingdom is Greece by assuming that the 4th Kingdom is Rome. That just begs the question.

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No, because it already put a certain creature that was represented as Greece, and another kingdom followed that one.

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Dan 7 :6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. (Greece)

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7 “After these things, as I was watching in the night visions a fourth beast appeared - one dreadful, terrible, and very strong. It had two large rows of iron teeth. It devoured and crushed, and anything that was left it trampled with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that came before it, and it had ten horns.

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The one AFTER Greece was, --what?? Rome. Correct.

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Again you're just assuming your answer.

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Neither is a CLEAR reference to Rome.

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But it is clear that Greece got trampled, and another took it's place. The place of Greece. Possibly it was a clever move not to name that one, because the last represntation of that kingdom might not be called Rome at all!!! You know, it could be called, 'The US of Europe', or The UN world council', or etc!! If so, having called it, like Greece and Medo Persia were spelled out, would cause some in that latter time to say, 'See, that ain't Rome, God was wrong!'
Looks like He got the jump on you. As always. Astounding.

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Also, when we get to the time of the end of the 69 set of seven years, that is when Messiah gets cut off. The kingdom that existed then has to be the one!

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Therefore it IS Greece ! (OK Daniel got the numbers of years wrong, but that one's about Antiochus).

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Say what?? 69 times seven is 483 years. From the proclamation business, that puts it you know where!! Amazing.

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Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

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That's the prophecy that you said hasn't happened yet. (Again, it's about Antiochus)

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Say what??" Verse 26. And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
By the "prince" Titus, the son of Vespasian, is plainly intended; and "the people of that prince" are no other than the Romans, who, according to the prophecy, destroyed the sanctuary, hakkodesh, the holy place or temple, and, as a flood, swept away all, till the total destruction of that obstinate people finished the war."Daniel 9 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.orgGreece was no where to be seen by the time the One that could begin to fulfil the prophesy, and the Only One, came! That is a pathetic attempt to confuse a clear issue.No one else could do all this (And it won't be all finished till the latter days are complete, but is is well started)"The seventy weeks therefore here spoken of amount to four hundred and ninety years.In Daniel 9:24there are six events mentioned which should be the consequences of the incarnation of our Lord:-I. To finish ( lechalle, to restrain,) the transgression, which was effected by the preaching of the Gospel, and pouring out of the Holy Ghost among men.II. To make an end of sins; rather ulehathem chataoth, "to make an end of sin-offerings;" which our Lord did when he offered his spotless soul and body on the cross once for all.III. To make reconciliation ( ulechapper, "to make atonement or expiation") for iniquity; which he did by the once offering up of himself.IV. To bring in everlasting righteousness, tsedek olamim, that is, "the righteousness, or righteous ONE, of ages;" that person who had been the object of the faith of mankind, and the subject of the predictions of the prophets through all the ages of the world.V. To seal up ( velachtom, "to finish or complete") the vision and prophecy; that is, to put an end to the necessity of any farther revelations, by completing the canon of Scripture, and fulfilling the prophecies which related to his person, sacrifice, and the glory that should follow.VI. And to anoint the Most Holy, kodesh kodashim, "the Holy of holies." mashach, to anoint, (from which comes mashiach, the Messiah, the anointed one,) signifies in general, to consecrate or appoint to some special office. Here it means the consecration or appointment of our blessed Lord, the Holy One of Israel, to be the Prophet, Priest, and King of mankind. "(same link)

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And the end is Greece. The point that you are missing is that it takes evidence to decide which kingdom is which. You aren't doing that, you're just assuming that you're right.

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It does have two legs. That is nice, since it was not divided by four generals like Greece was.

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It would do if Daniel had made a point of the division being into two.
But he doesn't. Nor does he mention an Empire beign divided into two. The only Empire he mentions as being divided - is the Greek Empire.

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It occupies the place of the 2 legs, that also connect to the last ten kings of man's dominion! Greece cannot connect the dots. If the ten kingdoms are old Roman empire related leftovers, Rome can. Greece was to be beaten, as is clear. It is preposterous to pretend it was to continue on according to the bible.

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But I'm not confused. I just don't agree with your opinions.

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So it is not confused to think that the latter day kingdom is Greece? It sure is. Ridiculous.

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No. All that is pointing out is that the last vile king will come from one of the divisions (four divisions) of the Greek empire!!! Nothing to do with the legs of Iron, or the bear, etc, which are quite clear if you look at the bible, and book, as a whole.

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Provided you ignore the point that the prophecy is explicitly stated to be a prophecy of the End Times.

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It is, placing geographically the last king. Not claiming Greece was still kicking.

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"It is clear from these texts that the 3 year period equaled 42 months or 1,260 days. Simple arithmetic yields a 360 day year. In other words, for purposes of this prophecy, a "year" is 360 calendar years long.

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Aside from the fact that you fail to even explain which texts supposedly show this, it is simply untrue.

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Which texts tell of the 1260 days, you mean? Is that a mystery?

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The essential claim is that a Jewish year is 360 days (12 months of 30 days) long, and the both the Jews and they understand it.

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And that claim is false. The Jewish year is typically 354 days long, but every 3 years or so an extra month is added to keep the calendar from getting too far out of sync with the solar year.

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"But how long is the prophetic year? Or, in other words, how many "days/years" does it represent? The length of the Jewish year is no help, since it was a lunisolar year of variable length. We know, as we have already noted, that the Jews kept their calendar records very carefully because of the theological significance of the calendar. Is it possible that God intended that the Jews should be so careful to keep his standard calendar, yet impose a different one when prophecy was to be considered? Let us consider the possibilities.The first and foremost consideration is that prophecy is understandable (2 Tim 3:15-16). While it is true that Daniel was told to "conceal these words and seal up the book" (Dan 12:4), at the time of John’s apocalypse, where the 1,260 day prophecy was clarified, the book was no longer to be sealed. Therefore, whatever the calendar situation was in the first century AD, that is, the context of the prophecy. Since the Jewish calendar had not changed from the earliest days, it is necessarily the calendar we should use in attempting to understand prophecy.Our next consideration is to look at other prophecies. Jeremiah prophesied regarding the length of the Babylonian captivity.10 "For thus says the LORD, 'When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place. Jer 29:10The historical and scriptural record on this prophecy is clear. When seventy standard solar years (by anyone’s calculations) were completed, Cyrus freed the Jews. If a 360 day prophetic year had been the standard, God was about a year late, since seventy of those "years" would be about 69 standard years!Our next step is to look at the question of record keeping. If prophetic years are 360 days long, it would be absolutely necessary to have a second set of records to establish when a prophecy was completed. Unfortunately for the D/F’s, there is absolutely no evidence that the Jews ever kept a "prophetic 360-day year" calendar. They were however compulsive about keeping the standard calendar. Without this second calendar, there would be no possibility that they would understand when any prophecy would be completed. As the study of Daniel 9 shows, the Jews (and even the Samaritans and the Magi) did understand the proper length of the seventy weeks, and they understood it to be 490 standard solar years.Does it make any sense for God to give prophetic guidance which could not be understood? Of course not! When God gave Daniel the prophecies of end times, God knew that the Jews kept a calendar synchronized with the solar year. When the prophecies were repeated to John, this situation had not changed. If the 30 day month were to be understood in prophecy, then there would be evidence that either the Jews knew of this constraint, or that God had given instruction regarding it. Since we have neither, we must conclude that God had no intention of fitting prophecy into 360 day years.The problems imposed by two different calendars would be enormous. Put simply, unless there was an actively maintained "prophetic" calendar, it would be utterly impossible for the Jews to know when any event would be expected. Even with our modern computers, it is not easy. But with a common solar year, the task is easy, even for illiterate common folk. We must reject any solution not available to the common person. Only the standard solar year fills the bill.We must ask why it is necessary to even consider a 360 day year. After all, if the Jews simply did not have such a year, why would it even appear in prophecy? The simplest answer comes from the nature of apocalyptic prophecy. In it, long spans of time are represented in symbolic terms. Since these terms are figurative, they do not fit well with the technical precision required to describe the Jewish year. It is far more appropriate to say "forty-two months" (Rev 11:2) than to include a dissertation on the fine details of which months in which years should be counted. Such an aside would detract from the message the prophecy was intended to convey. It also allowed God to tell how many years were in the prophecy (on the "year for a day" principle) without dealing with the complexities of the nineteen year Jewish cycle.The Jews knew that a month was (about) 30 days long. Thus, the 42 months, or 1,260 days, would have seemed natural to them as a way of describing the time. At the same time, they would automatically know that it was not a precise way of describing specific years, since the calendar did not always have 30 day months. This is no different than our modern thinking, where "a month is 30 days", even though months may actually have 28, 29, 30, or 31 days.We must consider the motivation of those who insist on the 360 day year. It is possible to propose that they have a simple misunderstanding of the Word. After all, the arithmetic is easy to do. But when we actually use this arithmetic to attempt to understand prophecy, it doesn’t work. Rather than consider the possibility that their method might be in error, the D/F’s force the Bible to fit their preconceived notions. This is not exegesis, the understanding of what God put in the Word. This is eisegesis, the reading into the Word of man’s ideas, and is to be condemned. Further, in their attempts to make the dates fit, the D/F’s have conjured up a whole series of geopolitical events which have nothing to do with the gospel. These speculations are not merely errors. They act to draw attention away from the true message of prophecy: the victory of the gospel.We must always try to learn what God placed in the Word. He used the language, culture, and common understanding of the people to whom the prophetic message was addressed. It is in this context that we can find the meaning of prophecy. And in every word, we should look for the gospel.The prophecy of the 1,260 days, 42 months, or 3 years is phrased so as to allow us to understand how many years it represents. It says nothing about how long those years are. That must be determined by the culture of the writer. The years are solar years of 365 days. That they are the same for the Jews and for us is due to the act of God in controlling the movement of the earth. A "year" is a year. Bible prophecy is written in forms which were understandable to the audience of that day. We should reject any interpretation which the Jews would be incapable of understanding.The concept that the ultimate time spans envisioned in prophecy are made up of 360-day years is incorrect. It should be rejected on that basis alone. But the more important reason for rejecting the concept is that it detracts attention from the gospel and focuses us on political fortune-telling regarding the future of the Jews. When we see this work of the father of lies we should run from it toward the truth."
http://www.bibleonly.org/proph/dan/prem3.htmlSounds like any big possible differences are nixed here! No way you can take the time away from the time of Jesus! Be amazed.

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If you read in context you will see that the Temple is still operating in Daniel 12:27, until the sacrifice is banned (which Antiochus did do) and the Temple is profaned by the "abomination" (which Antiochus did do). So Daniel 12:26 cannot mean complete destruction, until the end (which didn't come at all). So I would say that the "destruction" of 12:26 refers to Antiochus' raid of the Temple as mentioned in 1 Maccabees 1:21-24

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I am trying to work with you here, but I looked for Dan 12:27, and 26, and can't find them! It only goes up to verse 13!!! Nice try.Now if you meant chap 9:27, that would be absurd! Because if you notice Messiah had already come and been killed, or cut off by then!!! That seems to place this bit in the last week of Daniel. They again will do the animal sacrifice thingie. That will of course be allowed to be clobbered.We don't need to fine tune all the prophesies here, most are not believers on this site. But you can't take away the basic facts that the kingdoms, and Messiah were predicted in advance, even to the year, for Jesus.The in depth study of this stuff is only for believers, as doubing naysayers really miss the forest for the trees.

Forth relative to what? To get an accurate understanding of the prophecies of Daniel you need to combine the info from the various accounts, beginning with the image of Daniel 2, the first kingdom being Babylon. The only named one is Babylon here. You count 3 world empires (abe: beginning with) Babylon and you come to the Greek as the 3rd (age: empire).Go to Daniel 5 where Daniel prophesies to Belshazzar, Nebuchadnezzars son. Again the kingdoms not named but coincide with the image beast as you count down (abe: beginning with Babylon.)Then you go to Daniel 8 where in Belshazzar's 3rd year of rule, Daniel is given more info from God and he actually names the Medo-Persian empire and the Greek empires. Note in Daniel 5:28, Daniel has already told Belshazzar that the Mede Persian empire would follow the Babylonian Empire.So now we have three empires named beginning with Babylon and the Greek being the third. Thus Rome becomes the un-named fourth empire
(abe: beginning with) the Babylonian Edited by Buzsaw, : clarificationEdited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.