The Prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel

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But Alexander's empire did not become world class until he conquered the whole world.

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Which means that it WAS "world class"

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Macedonia was considered part of Greece, had Greek dialect language, Greek gods and Greek culture.

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Which doesn't mean that it WASN'T Macedonian.Given the fact that Alexander's Empire IS referred to as Macedonian, and you have accepted that Alexander DID conquer enough for his Empire to be considered "world class" both of your arguments have failed.Hopefully we can forget this silliness and get on with examining what Daniel actually says.

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This is why one must apply all the info from all of the visions of Daniel to understand the prophecy of Daniel and the empires.

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Including Daniel 8. Which indicates that the Hellenistic kingdoms will still be around in the End Times.

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Go to Daniel 7 where the same empires of Daniels image are depicted as beasts. The third beast is a leopard which had on it's back four wings and it had four heads. This is the only mention of one empire having the factor of four in all of his visions. The fourth beast has the factor of ten which is 10 kings, being the ten toes of the first vistion and the 10 horns of the last. The 4th empire of Daniel has the division of 10 whereas the 3rd has the division of 4.

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All you have on the 3rd beast is the number 4. There is no mention of any division.The 4th beast has a "little horn". There is a "little horn" in Daniel 8, too. And that "little horn" is a Hellenistic monarch who can be identified as the Seleucid Antichus IV Epiphanes. A "little horn" is rather more specific than the number 4, so that, added to the fact that Daniel 8 is about the End Times is a good indication that they are the same.And it gets better. Antichus IV was the 8th Seleucid monarch - and a usurper. An official, Heliodorus attempted to seize the throne - murdering the king, Antiochus' brother, Antiochus made his move and took the throne for himself pushing aside the dead king's two sons. One was a hostage in Rome the other, still a child was murdered. Add in the two sons and the usurper Heliodorus to the 7 previous monarchs and we get 10 - with 3 "uprooted" to allow Antiochus to take the throne.So the "little horn" is Antiochus - and the 4th Beast is Greek.Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

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here are some facts relative to the Greek/Macedonian argument as to whether Daniel's third empire of Alexander the Great was an alleged Macedonian empire.

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This relates to something I already knew of. The Greeks object to the name of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia on the grounds that the ancient Macedonians were "Greek".The Greeks claim that the the ancient Macedonians are the real Macedonians, and the modern republic has no right to the name.Therefore it INSISTS that Alexander and his people WERE Macedonian. Perhaps you would like to explain how you come to the conclusion that Alexander's Empire WASN'T Macedonian from that.

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The 'first' Messiah?? What, how many do you think there were?

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That's "messiah" with a lower-case 'm'. There are two in the prophecy and rather more in history. Every High Priest and every properly installed king of Israel or Judah (where "proper" refers to the requirements of the Hebrew religion).

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And he was a heathen king to boot? Very funny. Get serious

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The Book of Isaiah says so (Isaiah 45:1). Do you claim to know better than the Bible ?

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Now, there was so many weeks for the wall, and etc to be built. I think it was 7, or 49 years

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No, that's to when the first Messiah appears.

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Then we have 62 weeks till the Messiah, and also the destruction of the city. Forget the last week for now. So, try to fit your wanna be Messiahs into that!!

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I did. You're the one who has to invent gaps.

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As for some guy that did stop the sacrifice, there we get into an area where history blends with the future, and the question is where does the one stop, and the ultimate fulfillment start?!!

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THere isn't anything about OUR future in there. The 490 years doesn't even get to 70 AD ! (Even choosing the latest possible start date !)

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The raw fact that the temple and city were destroyed AFTER Messsiah was cut off, and that the kingdoms of this world were all named in advance,

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Rome isn't named. None of the later Kingdoms that you believe Daniel is about are named. Want to explain why that is ? And you can't show that even one of those that was named, was named in advance.

starman,you do realize that, even though you have been refuted on numerous occasions in this thread, most of the people you debate theology with on this forum were Christian to boot. You should just accept that you have been refuted not only by Force but by paulk. P.S. I used to be just like you. . Stop letting your misplaced faith and other peoples arguments come between you and the truth.Edited by Force, : editEdited by Force, : edit

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Thanks
To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.

bump... question answered.Edited by Force, : deletion

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Thanks
To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.

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That's "messiah" with a lower-case 'm'. There are two in the prophecy and rather more in history. Every High Priest and every properly installed king of Israel or Judah (where "proper" refers to the requirements of the Hebrew religion).

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Two? Where are they? Must have missed that.

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The Book of Isaiah says so (Isaiah 45:1). Do you claim to know better than the Bible ?

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Right, I think he was a good guy too. Why else would he get named long long before he was born by scripture!!?That being said, he was over a wicked country, all kingdoms are. God will bring antichrist down to Israel, that doesn't make him a saint, just a tool.

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I did. You're the one who has to invent gaps.

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The wall and etc was to be built again, that is a division point. Messiah comes, and city destroyed etc, another one. Each is marked out, for example, the 62 weeks, is it not? Why do you think that is, just to make your replies silly??

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THere isn't anything about OUR future in there. The 490 years doesn't even get to 70 AD ! (Even choosing the latest possible start date !)

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Of course there is, unless you think everlasting righteouness is here now??

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Rome isn't named. None of the later Kingdoms that you believe Daniel is about are named. Want to explain why that is ? And you can't show that even one of those that was named, was named in advance.

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The kingdom to follow the kindoms NAMED by no less than the arcangel of God himself, could not be named, cause it won't have the same name. Get it?? But it is described in details that look more like history than prophesy!!

Srarman, now you see why over the years I've engaged in few prophecy debates with folks who will never admit to one regardless of the evidence.They don't even see any significance to the phenomena of the regathered Jews from numerous distant nations and the establishment of their nation after 19 centuries, Hebrew language and all, having never integrated into the races of those nations. If they can't find prophecy fulfillment in that, how can we expect anything positive from them on anything else?I'm reminded of the Pharasees who faulted Jesus and Lazurus because it was done on the Jewish Sabbath rather than to lend credence to the miracle.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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I'm reminded of the Pharasees who faulted Jesus and Lazurus because it was done on the Jewish Sabbath rather than to lend credence to the miracle.

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The Pharisees shone best when they got it right concerning the Sabbath - that was and is their credence, and the non-credibility of those who flaunted this command. The fault was with the gospel writers and those who have no notion of the OT laws, having never observed it, or understood why the sabbath command gets priority over murder, adultry, stealing, etc. The sabbath law, when observed, makes all other crimes far away, and is attached to the first two commands against blasphemy. The factor of honesty [the 3rd command] is the only one which precedes it. Since when is honoring the sabbath a crime - how desperate can the gospels be?How ridiculous of the gospel writers - they never could negate the sabbath, so they replaced it with another day - worshipping the sun, as with the hellenist sun diety. They then went on to commit the greatest crimes in humanity's history - even persecuting those who did not worship in the new sunday. Its beyond obsurd.The 10 Commandments were given on the sabbath. Thus it says, "REMEMBER AND OBSERVE [two commands in one] *THIS DAY*". The 'this day' refers to the day being a sabbath - provable when all the OT calendar dates are calculated. The sabbath marks the ceasation of all creation, and the honoring of the universe's creation, which moves into the sabbathical zone once a week for 24 hours. There is no day which takes precedence of the sabbath. The one day in seven for a rest from all work was introduced by this law, and is alligned with inalienable human rights, appropriate freedom from labor, and that man shall not live by bread alone. IN Dueteronomy, Moses reverses the sabbath message, declaring the sabbath will keep those who keep the sabbath.

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The Book of Isaiah says so (Isaiah 45:1). Do you claim to know better than the Bible ?

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Isaiah does not condone anything in the NT. Isaiah represents Monotheism; the sabbath laws and only the 613 laws of the OT - he castigated any who desecrated the OT laws, and assured the only path was via those laws. One cannot select what they like from a prophetic scripture. Isaiah would never condone the desecration of the sabbath, as per the NT. Its not even an option to think about.

The Macedonians claim an older writing than the greek - which has not been generally acknowledged. The difference between the Macs and the Greeks is that it was a Macedonian who initiated the first translation of the Hebrew bible - a factor which changed history, and ushered in two religions.Today, there is a latent, hovering battle in an under-current, whereby christianity and islam have been claiming ascendence of what was initiated by Alexander - while both these religions cannot seperate themselves from their past, making the OT subservient to their own past beliefs with new names. Alex, and thereby the Macs, were thus different from the greeks: while he esteemed the Jews and was assassinated for it, the Greeks hellenised the OT out of ego. Today's world is the result of Alexander - a Macedonian, without whom there would be no Septuagint, and no NT or Quran. It was a Macedonian, not a Greek, who changed history.

The Macedonian/Greek debate is raging over there as we speak. I doubt we will solve that here, but anyone who understands the prophecies of Daniel relative to world history and relative to modern events knows that the third empire of Daniel's prophecies was the Greek empire and that Macedonia was then considered in Greece.The Slavs in Macedonia, i.e. the minority of the citizens of Macedonia want to make it a separate nation and have concocted a separate flag for Northern Greece, i.e Macedonia.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Sorry Buz, Macedonia is a separate nation with a separate flag since declaring independence in 1991. Where have you been?Your claim to interpret prophecy and know the future better than virtually anyone else is compromised by your apparent inability to interpret wikipedia and other sources of information concerning the present.Edited by anglagard, : remove passive voice

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

It seems that Darius considered Jehovah to be at least the principle god. Remember Daniel and the lion's den? Darius was hardly a Biblical fundie. He was willing to aquise to the notion of exalting himself above all gods, including Jehovah, for a spell which resulted in Daniel's predicament.In Isaiah 45:11 it appears that he was anointed for the purpose of Jehovah for the occasion. He stood up for God's nation, Israel. Hopefully he will end up ok in the judgement after all is said and done. God alone will be his final judge.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I've been here and there on the www. ABE: Be mindful that the thread is relative to ancient time and not 1991. Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

In Message 131 Buz said:

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The Slavs in Macedonia, i.e. the minority of the citizens of Macedonia want to make it a separate nation and have concocted a separate flag for Northern Greece, i.e Macedonia.

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This is a false, or at minimum misleading, statement.In Message 132 I said:

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Sorry Buz, Macedonia is a separate nation with a separate flag since declaring independence in 1991.

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This is a true statement.In Message 134 Buz said:

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I've been here and there on the www. {a link to the ongoing dispute over which nation has the right to use the term 'Macedonia'}

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ABE: Be mindful that the thread is relative to ancient time and not 1991.

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Obviously a blatant attempt On Buz's part to 'palm the pea' in order to keep from admitting he made a false and/or misleading statement.Let's see if Buz is man enough to admit he was wrong.

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza