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Author Topic:   Why did they cover their nakedness?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 26 of 81 (472827)
06-24-2008 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jaywill
06-05-2008 6:28 PM


Naughty God
jaywill writes:
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a tree with a deceptive advertized purpose.
Please forgive me if you have reconsidered your position since posting to this thread but I could not help noticing that after writing the above, you posted the following:
"And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, of it you shall not eat; for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17)
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Jehovah who called it "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil?" Wasn't it Jehovah who advertized the Tree, even telling Adam where to find it? (Gen 3:3) And you don't hear the Serpent calling it by any name at all. Adam and Eve knew about the tree and where to find it because God told them.
Thus, it is Jehovah (AKA 'the LORD') who tempted Adam. Maybe that's why The Lord's Prayer includes the phrase: "Lead us not into Temptation."
Such a Naughty God.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jaywill, posted 06-05-2008 6:28 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Taz, posted 06-25-2008 3:20 AM doctrbill has not replied
 Message 28 by jaywill, posted 06-25-2008 6:20 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 29 of 81 (472938)
06-25-2008 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jaywill
06-25-2008 6:20 PM


Re: Naughty God
You are quite the back-peddler Jay.
You strongly asserted that to call it The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was False Advertizing.
Now you attempt to say that you did not.
You claim that Jehovah accurately predicted the result of eating the fruit. But he didn't.
Jehovah said, "In the day you eat of it you shall surely die."
The Serpent said, "You certainly won't die but you will become as Gods."
And what happened after Adam ate the fruit? He went on living for a long, long, time. And Jehovah himself commenting on the situation said,
"Look, the man has become like one of us."
Jehovah called it wrongly.
The Serpent called it rightly.
Jehovah was deceptive.
And the Serpent told the truth.
Deal with it.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jaywill, posted 06-25-2008 6:20 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jaywill, posted 06-26-2008 9:09 AM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 33 of 81 (473014)
06-26-2008 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jaywill
06-26-2008 9:09 AM


Re: Naughty God
Hello again Jay.
Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply.
jaywill writes:
I was very careful to specify that this was only my speculative imagination. Do you recall me writing that?
I must confess that I sometimes miss your point. I am sure that a part of the difficulty for me is that you write so many arguments in a single post, coming at it from many different directions at once. Most of what you say is familiar to me given the years I spent in Bible College and the time I spent conducting worship services. Even so, you come up with a few thoughts which I haven't heard and these, I think, sometimes get lost in the landslide of standard (i.e. 'pat') answers which you put forth. By standard answers I mean those common to most, if not all, Christian apologists. These I have heard way too many times to want to read them all over again and so I tend to skip them while scanning for something unfamiliar; like your personally reasoned gems. Which, apparently, I sometimes overlook.
I personally do not expect ever to fully appreciate the impressions this story left on the minds of those ancient Jews who heard it read aloud in the original language, in their native tongue, during its first ever public presentation by the author.
However ...
I am equally convinced that I cannot entirely trust another man's opinion over my own prayerful meditation on what is being said and what it means. I'm sure you understand that I can no longer trust the opinionated pablum I was force-fed as a Seventh Day Adventist ministerial student. Yes?
You can be sure that I have re-examined and attempted to falsify all of the indoctrination I received as a member of The One True Church. Believe me when I tell you that I do not automatically trust any new idea, no matter the source. I may be considered a skeptic now but there was a time, and still is, when I was, and am, skeptical of skepticism.
But I digress.
Now then ...
  • If I warn you against eating a plant which will kill you inside a day ...
  • If another guy tells you the plant isn't deadly but will make you wise ...
  • If you eat the plant, get wise, and die of old age nine hundred years later ...
I think you get the point.
Plus:
If Adam was created with the intent that he should live forever, then why is there that other tree in the garden? The Tree of Life. Eat from it and you will live forever. Why is it even in the Garden? Who is supposed to benefit from it? Why doesn't the serpent tempt them to eat that fruit first? God takes them out of the garden so they can't get to the Tree of Life. Why not simply take the Tree of Life out of the garden?
Too many questions. Not enough answers. All my life I have heard silly speculations, none of them satisfying many of them mutually exclusive. What's a thinking man to do? Ask God? Do you imagine I haven't done so? Do you imagine I gave up easily? Seriously, I think it doesn't matter. My God isn't trapped inside an old Jewish legend. He's out and about and working on better books than this one. No offense. I simply don't believe what they told me in Sabbath School, or what they tell you in Sunday School, or what some cockamamie preacher imagines in his wildest dreams.
I have the book. I have my brain. I have your attention.
What more do I need?
In Closing ...
As to the last bit you wrote, regarding "spiritual death" I have one question.
Does this apply to "The Resurrection?"

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jaywill, posted 06-26-2008 9:09 AM jaywill has not replied

  
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