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Author | Topic: The Twins Paradox and the speed of light | |||||||||||||||||||||||
onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
The GPS's atomic clock is affected by this also right?
All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
However, relativity theory has to transform between the different frames of reference and that produces different numerical values for a "tick" as you transform space and time variables. Neither clock (on earth or in the GPS satellites) are changed. But the calculations to compare them to one another (in whichever reference frame you pick) changes the numbers attached. Thanks for the explanation, it made perfect sense. All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
As I understand it, if you're traveling between two points in spacetime, you have a time component and a space component. The total distance between the two points is the same whether you move in space or not (because they are the same points regardless). So therefore, if you don't move through space then all of the distance is from the time component. However, if you do move through space, then the time component of the total distance must be less because the total distance remains the same. That makes sense to me. Is it accurate?
I hope its accurate too because your explanation cleared up for me perfectly. Lets repet it over and over again like a chant, maybe it'll finally sink into my brain All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
But if experienced time, ds, is the same between the two spacetime coordinates regardless of the space component of the distance, then how can traveling through space affect the experienced time? CS, in my attempt to understand it I'll try to answer you. Experienced time is the same *at* the 2 space-time coordinates, not between them. The affect of traveling is only relative to the one observing, to the one traveling the time hasn't been affected. In the attempt to connect the traveler with the observer, given that the observers time is the one that we are going by, time dilation comes into play. The way I understand it is that its *experienced* time, not an actual time change. I think... All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
So, its not that the traveling really affects the time experienced, its only that time dilation occurs to the stationary twin's observation because the other one is moving? The time dilation would only exist if the clock for measuring time is at the observers end. The clock in the twins shuttle will not have slown down. All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Slown... Slowed...sorry about that. LOL, sometimes I throw shitty english out when I type quickly. Im the by-product of a text messaging world where spelling is optional.
Then why aren't the twins the same age?
What im explaining is that if you have a watch, and I have a watch, and they are synchronized, and you are traveling away form me in a rocket, in both frames of reference the watches are ticking normally. That is Einsteins elevator experiment,Einstein's Relativity The twins paradox deals with distance being reduced when traveling through space...as per Son Goku's equation. The stationary twin is traveling through more space, and time. The twin that is moving is traveling through less space, and time. So the stationary twin, having traveled more time is older than the twin who traveled for less time. Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
The stationary twin is traveling through more less space so therefore more time and the moving twin is traveling through less more space so therefore less time. Here's Son Goku's equation of the paradox'
Son Goku writes: Stationary twin:If one twin sits where they are for four seconds they end up with coordinates: (1,200,000,000 ; 0) or t=1,200,000,000 and x=0. Now I'll compute the spacetime distance. Since dx=0 (no difference or change in spatial coordinate) we just have ds^2 = dt^2. dt = 1,200,000,000 - 0 = 1,200,000,000dt^2 = 1,440,000,000,000,000,000 Hence ds^2 = 1,440,000,000,000,000,000 and taking the square root: ds = 1,200,000,000 meters. Moving twin:The moon is roughly 384,000,000 meters from Earth. The second twin starts at Earth and travels to the moon in two seconds. So they start at (0 ; 0) and end up at (600,000,000 ; 384,000,000). The spatial difference is dx = 384,000,000 - 0 = 384,000,000 Similarly, dt = 600,000,000. dx^2 = 147,456,000,000,000,000 dt^2 = 360,000,000,000,000,000 ds^2 = 360,000,000,000,000,000 - 147,456,000,000,000,000 = 212,544,000,000,000,000. Taking the square root, ds = 461,024,945 meters. Assuming the twin takes an exactly similar journey back to Earth, that is they return in two seconds, then the distance for the return journey is again ds = 461,024,945 meters. Hence the total spacetime distance of the moving twin isds = 2 x 461,024,945 meters = 922,049,890 meters. Which is significantly less than the 1,200,000,000 meters of the stationary twin. Hence spacetime distance is reduced by moving through space. Which still gives us the end result of,
quote: CS writes: because then, it make perfect sense to me That's all I ever aim to do. "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Cavediver writes: and the traveller's spacetime path (the time he experiences) is shorter than the static twin's spacetime path. So it's in the spacetime interval that the experienced time is shorter. Is this only the case at speeds close to the SoL?
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
The spacetime interval IS the experienced time - they are one and the same. Right, I fudged up the way I tried to say it. Got it now.
And it will be shorter for all speeds - just reasonably measurable as the difference in speed approaches c. Thanks again for the explanations cavediver.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
CS writes: That very honorable. I do too, but that's not all sometimes its just too much fun to rile up the liberals
Yeah, but really, it fun to rile up anyone who's too far to either side.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I guess this just goes to prove how difficult facts in cosmology are to pin down and how ambiguous the whole concept is.
There is one minor problem with this statement, the "twin paradox" wasn't actually a fact.
Sourcequote: The key point is "acceleration". Further in the link you'll find the Twin Paradox without acceleration as well. - Oni Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Perhaps the confusion is that there is no paradox. The effect is real but there is nothing paradoxial about it...
Thanks, cavediver. That's what I meant. I guess I should have expressed that better. - Oni Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.
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