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Author Topic:   Discovery or Ignorance: The Choice Is yours?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 5 of 402 (473717)
07-02-2008 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
07-01-2008 1:08 PM


On what grounds can IDists/Creationists claim that their viewpoint is scientific when no new discoveries, new technologies or advancement in knowledge has ever been gained as a result of their explanations or research endeavors? Ever.
But they already have ALL the answers in their Divine Manual, what do they need to discover?
New vaccines? No, pray to God and you will be cured if you are sincere.
Origin of life? They already know the origin of life.
Dating Methods? They already have the date of the birth of Christ, everything else is relative to that point in history.
Development of languages. Easy, read Tower of Babel.
As for predictions, science is nowhere near the same league when it comes to predictions. The Bible has over 300 preditions relating to Jesus alone that have ALL come true, some written 1500 years before Jesus was incarnated. In fact, everything that the Bible has predicted has come true, that's a 100% record, how does science compare when scientists change their theories every five minutes?
What is it we have evolved from this week, a monkey or a rock?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 07-01-2008 1:08 PM Straggler has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 9 of 402 (473752)
07-02-2008 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by John 10:10
07-02-2008 4:11 PM


IDists/Creationists start with understanding that God, the Intelligent Designer, is the Creator.
What is it that convinces IDists/Creationists this is a sensible place to start?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by John 10:10, posted 07-02-2008 4:11 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by John 10:10, posted 07-02-2008 10:10 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 17 of 402 (473814)
07-03-2008 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by John 10:10
07-02-2008 10:10 PM


From the understanding that most scientists now have that the universe suddenly came into existance from something smaller than a pin head; i.e. nothing.
Something smaller than a pinhead isn't nothing, there are lots of things that are smaller than a pinhead.
That's what convinces IDists/Creationists this is a sensible place to start?
I have no idea, that's why I asked you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by John 10:10, posted 07-02-2008 10:10 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 9:37 AM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 18 of 402 (473815)
07-03-2008 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Coyote
07-03-2008 12:46 AM


I really don't understand creationists who try to denigrate the theory of evolution by claiming "it's just a theory."
I can think of lots of reasons.
1. Willful ignorance
2. Laziness
3. Indoctrination
4. Fear
5. Poor core skills
6. Cognitive dissonance
7. Parroting their heroes' soundbites
8. Strawclutching
I have also noticed a general lack of credible academic qualifications in people who keep saying this. You would think that once they have been told what the word 'theory' actually means, then they wouldn't need to be told again, well maybe twice at the most should be enough for any reasonably intelligent adult to grasp the meaning of a simple word.
I'm just waiting for someone to say "evolution is a theory not a fact!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Coyote, posted 07-03-2008 12:46 AM Coyote has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 29 of 402 (473853)
07-03-2008 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by John 10:10
07-03-2008 9:37 AM


Maybe you feel comfortable believing that this universe could spring into existance from something smaller than a pinhead without a Creator, but I do not.
You don't know what I believe, I was just pointing out the flaw in your claim.
It takes great faith, or deception, to have such a belief.
You mean more faith than believing a being you cannot prove exists created it from NOTHING. I'd say the BBists are two up on you before they start.
Anyway, do you mind answering the question?
Why would a scientist prefer to start with a god and then look for evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 9:37 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 10:53 AM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 33 of 402 (473860)
07-03-2008 10:22 AM


Here's a question..
Why is it that when a person goes through some religious conversion experience they suddenly know more about science, history, theology, archaeology, and every other academic discipline than people who have studied a particular area for decades at a very high level?
Why bother going to uni for x amount of years when you can just welcome Jesus into your life and suddenly possess a ph.d level of knowlegde in every subject known to man?
Some creationists here seem to think they are an expert on absolutely everything, despite the fact (and this is a fact)that their posts betray an ignorance of the subjects they claim to be experts in.
The thing is, if they really wanted to know about the world around them then there are a lot of highly qualified people here who are very willing to help.

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 34 of 402 (473861)
07-03-2008 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Dr Adequate
07-03-2008 9:59 AM


I'm suspecting that the '10.10' in John's name is his age, we'll know for sure if he changes it next month to 'John 10:11'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-03-2008 9:59 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 11:24 AM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 39 of 402 (473872)
07-03-2008 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by John 10:10
07-03-2008 10:53 AM


Try looking in Hebrews 11:6 for your answer.
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
I said scientist not theologian.
So, what you are essentially saying is that to please God you have to lie, ignore the evidence, and act like a simpleton? If you accomplish this then God will reward you?
Why does God want His creation to act like idiots? Is it because people have to be idiots to believe in God?
What scientist would start any research wothout looking at the evidence?
As I said, the creos have a far more difficult job than the scientists do. They have something beginning from nothing all instigated by an entity they have no proof exists! Yes indeed, creationism is way ahead of science.
BTW, you do know that Hebrews authorship has now been taken off Paul. What a reliable book the Bible is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 10:53 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 12:25 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 40 of 402 (473876)
07-03-2008 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by John 10:10
07-03-2008 11:24 AM


That passage doesn't say anything about your age, it is just a promise of eternal life, the life to come.
I suspect you are probably the same age as Jesus in Luke 2:42.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 11:24 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 12:28 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 43 of 402 (473888)
07-03-2008 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by John 10:10
07-03-2008 12:25 PM


God says, "Believe first, then I will prove Myself to you."
It's called self delusion, this principle can apply to anything.
This is hardly a scientific approach though is it, believe something first THEN the evidence will be provided?
Plus, when a book as horrendously flawed as the Bible is, then that's a good reason NOT to consider Heb. 11:6!
But this still doesn't account for the vast amount of evidence that supports evolution, ignoring this evidence doesn't make it go away.
And misrepresenting what evolution is only makes it look as if you haven't bothered to find out what it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 12:25 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 1:10 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 51 of 402 (473902)
07-03-2008 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by John 10:10
07-03-2008 1:10 PM


There is a vast difference between looking at the evidence that "supposedly" supports the theory of evolution, and the proof that evolution actually works over billions of years, taking life from simple cell creatures to complex man.
But there is no difference. Science arrived at the conclusion that life evolves by looking at the evidence, not the other way round.
True science looks at things that can be proven to a very degree of accuracy, not theories can that never be proven.
What do you think a theory is? Ideas do not simply become theories as soon as they are presented, there's a very rigourous process to go through before anything is accepted as a theory. A theory has to be falsifiable, and evolution is very easy to disprove, so why has no one been able to dislodge evolution as a theory?
Have you read lately some of the "so-called scientific theories" that somehow sparked or brought the spark of life to our earth?
But this is not what evolution is, it doesn't deal with the origins of life.
Very unimpressive, belonging more to a Hollywood Si-Fi thriller than to true science.
Well bud, I have studied the Old Testament, archaeology, ancient near eastern history, and theology for a long time, and I have read things that make the plots of science fiction movies appear very unimaginative.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 1:10 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by John 10:10, posted 07-03-2008 2:49 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 95 of 402 (474006)
07-04-2008 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by John 10:10
07-04-2008 11:31 AM


Re: Eggs and Chickens
If there are in fact chicken eggs long, long, long before we find any occurrences of chickens, then they were placed there by our Creator
So you worship a liar?
Let's hope He isn't dicking you around with the whole resurrection of Jesus thing.
This approach of yours makes the Bible pointless, nothing in it can be taken seriously.
Did you used to drink a lot?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 11:31 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 6:00 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 101 of 402 (474018)
07-04-2008 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Dr Adequate
07-04-2008 1:23 PM


Meanwhile, the world's greatest scientists will tell me that evolution is science.
Ah but Johnny's got that covered!
He knows that God has planted all that evidence so that all the great scientists are fooled in to thinking that evolution is science. The blind fools!!!!
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note - 3 day suspension because of this message

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-04-2008 1:23 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-04-2008 1:40 PM Brian has not replied

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