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Author Topic:   Discovery or Ignorance: The Choice Is yours?
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 106 of 402 (474031)
07-04-2008 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by bluegenes
07-04-2008 11:31 AM


Re: Johnboy the Ape
So, in order for a geologist to tell us that the Hawaiian Islands were formed by volcanic activity, he has to recreate them time and time again by volcanic activity? What a strange fantasy world you live in, my little simian friend.
Unless you are blind, one can see the Hawaiian Islands forming before your very eyes, so you don't have to prove that they were and are being formed by volcanic activity. Surely you can come up with a better put down than this, my friend who was created in the image of God, not simian.
Yes, our cells have damage that occurred from our ancestors, Adam & Eve, again not simian. This damage can be reversed for those who choose to come to their Creator and yield their lives to Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by bluegenes, posted 07-04-2008 11:31 AM bluegenes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Organicmachination, posted 07-04-2008 5:50 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 110 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-04-2008 6:06 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 145 by Granny Magda, posted 07-05-2008 1:27 PM John 10:10 has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 107 of 402 (474034)
07-04-2008 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by John 10:10
07-04-2008 5:34 PM


Re: Johnboy the Ape
Again, I must ask you, can you show God creating the Earth over and over again? Can you prove that God did it and show us all over and over again in a laboratory him doing it?
If you can't, your arguments fail by their own logic.
Well, can ya'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 5:34 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 7:21 PM Organicmachination has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 108 of 402 (474036)
07-04-2008 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Brian
07-04-2008 12:03 PM


Re: Eggs and Chickens
If there are in fact chicken eggs long, long, long before we find any occurrences of chickens, then they were placed there by our Creator
So you worship a liar?
You must have missed the word "if."
No, I worship my Creator, and he can be your Savior, "if" you will open up your heart to Him.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Brian, posted 07-04-2008 12:03 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-04-2008 6:08 PM John 10:10 has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 109 of 402 (474037)
07-04-2008 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Straggler
07-04-2008 2:34 PM


Re: Projects
Straggler writes:
John 10:10 writes:
This is what true science is all about. This is why the evolutionary process is shear speculation, I don't care how many Nobel winners jump on this bandwagon.
Science is about making tested reliable conclusions. The stringent and methodical testing of theories of nature against the realities of nature itself. How exactly this is achieved depends on the nature of the theory in questionan and the evidence available.
I live about 225 miles from Crystal River Nuclear Power Plant and I don't want any of those guys making reliable conclusions. I want them to know for a fact what they are doing. If that sucker melts down I won't be able to argue with you guys.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Straggler, posted 07-04-2008 2:34 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 7:30 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 183 by Straggler, posted 07-06-2008 12:20 PM ICANT has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 110 of 402 (474038)
07-04-2008 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by John 10:10
07-04-2008 5:34 PM


Re: Johnboy the Ape
Unless you are blind, one can see the Hawaiian Islands forming before your very eyes ...
"Unless you are blind, one can see evolution taking place before your very eyes ..."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 5:34 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 111 of 402 (474040)
07-04-2008 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by John 10:10
07-04-2008 6:00 PM


Re: Eggs and Chickens
You must have missed the word "if."
No, but surely we can reject any hypothesis that makes God a liar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 6:00 PM John 10:10 has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 112 of 402 (474042)
07-04-2008 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Larni
07-04-2008 1:29 PM


Re-Johns View
Larni writes:
What you are describing misses out the formulation of the hypothesis.
As I see it John does not have the luxury of having a hypothesis.
In the BBT theory so what if there are things wrong with some aspects of the theory. As far as evolution is concerned what is the problem if something is wrong you just change the theory and go on.
What John has been associated with all his life is something where you can not make a mistake in your theory. If you do you take out a lot of the population and destroy a portion of the country.
So he is not allowed to make mistakes. Why should anybody else that is involved in science be allowed to.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Larni, posted 07-04-2008 1:29 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Larni, posted 07-05-2008 6:10 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 186 by Straggler, posted 07-06-2008 1:20 PM ICANT has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 113 of 402 (474043)
07-04-2008 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Organicmachination
07-04-2008 12:38 PM


And until you can invoke God to create the Earth in 6 days and 7 nights and fill it with creatures time and time again, in front of your eyes, you must also conclude that your creationism is just shear speculation as well. After all, your definitions of "true science" also apply to you, my friend.
I believe the 6 days of creation as revealed in Genesis 1 were ages occurring over many billions of years, starting from the beginning of creation about 14 billion years ago. As galaxies and stars were formed, the earth came into being about 4 billion years ago. About 560 million years ago during the Cambrian age, fully developed animals suddenly appeared on this earth, not having evolved over the millions of years which preceeded this. Since the Cambrian age, the fossil record shows about 5 major extinction periods on this earth, to be followed again by the sudden appearance of fully formed animals. The last sudden extinction period occurred about 60 million years ago when the dinosaurs suddenly disappeared.
The evolutionary model used to be a slow evolution occurring over several billion of years, from simple cell creatures to fully developed man. Now that the major extinctions periods are known, the new model says a few animals survived these major extinctions only to begin again the evolutionary process much faster than previously supposed. The current evolutionary model for man is now squeezed into only a 60 million year time frame.
Yes, I await with great anticipation the next great speculation of the evolutionary model which is called true science by our Nobel winners. In the mean time, I continue to rest in the knowledge that my Creator is still in charge of His universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Organicmachination, posted 07-04-2008 12:38 PM Organicmachination has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 114 of 402 (474045)
07-04-2008 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Larni
07-04-2008 1:29 PM


One starts with observing things as ther are. Then one begins the process of understanding how things became as they are. And finally one proves the process by replicating the process time and time again until one knows with reasonable accuracy that the test results are true.
Hi John, I hope you don't mind me butting in:
I think the above paragraph may be in error because there seems to be no role in prediction in depiction of science.
I don't have a problem with prediction in depiction of science, as long as predictions truly result in reality, confirmed by the testing that is done to confirm that one's prediction results in things as they are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Larni, posted 07-04-2008 1:29 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Larni, posted 07-05-2008 6:14 AM John 10:10 has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 115 of 402 (474047)
07-04-2008 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Dr Adequate
07-04-2008 1:52 PM


Re: "True science" and other lies
Evolution fits no such definition. Show us where evolution has been tested "with results that can be replicated time and time again."
That has been done by people called "scientists". You may now and then have seen some of these scientist folks while you scrubbed the floors of nuclear power stations, or whatever non-scientific task you performed while hanging around scientists.
I must have missed the part where these Nobel scientists have tested the evolutionary model over billions of years of time with results that can be replicated time and time again. Anyone can say something. The proof is in doing. This they have not done.
Edited by John 10:10, : spelling error

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-04-2008 1:52 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 116 of 402 (474049)
07-04-2008 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Straggler
07-04-2008 2:34 PM


Re: Projects
The same process is true for various sciences. One starts with observing things as ther are.
Yes
Then one begins the process of understanding how things became as they are.
OK
And finally one proves the process
No.
I don't know what school you went to but science is not in the business of "proving" anything.
science - The investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the knowledge produced by such investigation. Science makes use of the scientific method, which includes the careful observation of natural phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis, the conducting of one or more experiments to test the hypothesis, and the drawing of a conclusion that confirms or modifies the hypothesis.
Until the evolutionary model can do all of this, which includes testing from start to finish, it will always remain shear speculation, not true science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Straggler, posted 07-04-2008 2:34 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Organicmachination, posted 07-04-2008 7:55 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 122 by Blue Jay, posted 07-04-2008 8:17 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 184 by Straggler, posted 07-06-2008 12:28 PM John 10:10 has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 117 of 402 (474051)
07-04-2008 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Organicmachination
07-04-2008 5:50 PM


Re: Johnboy the Ape
Again, I must ask you, can you show God creating the Earth over and over again? Can you prove that God did it and show us all over and over again in a laboratory him doing it?
Neither can you show the evolutionary model is true from start to finish. That's why it's not "true science" and does not belong in a science classroom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Organicmachination, posted 07-04-2008 5:50 PM Organicmachination has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Organicmachination, posted 07-04-2008 7:26 PM John 10:10 has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 118 of 402 (474052)
07-04-2008 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by John 10:10
07-04-2008 7:21 PM


Re: Johnboy the Ape
You continue to deflect. This is the third time I will ask, and if you don't answer, this entire board will know that you have conceded that your own views are not truly scientific and don't have a place in the classroom just as much as you claim evolution doesn't.
Show us a laboratory experiment where God creates the Earth over and over again to make us believe that what you say is true science.
If you cannot, you concede your point, and you lose this argument.
Again, if you do not reply to this with a clear answer, this entire board will know that your views are made invalid by your own logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 7:21 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 07-04-2008 8:54 PM Organicmachination has replied
 Message 144 by John 10:10, posted 07-05-2008 1:19 PM Organicmachination has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 119 of 402 (474053)
07-04-2008 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by ICANT
07-04-2008 6:06 PM


Re: Projects
I live about 225 miles from Crystal River Nuclear Power Plant and I don't want any of those guys making reliable conclusions. I want them to know for a fact what they are doing. If that sucker melts down I won't be able to argue with you guys.
I have had the priviledge of working with some of the best nuclear engineers in the world. No, neither they nor I am perfect, but we have built the best energy system this world has ever seen over the last 100 years, with nuclear contributing 20%+ to our electric energy needs. With God's help, we will continue to make our energy system as safe and reliable as we can.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by ICANT, posted 07-04-2008 6:06 PM ICANT has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 402 (474055)
07-04-2008 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by John 10:10
07-04-2008 9:42 AM


Re: "True science" and other lies
Show us where evolution has been tested "with results that can be replicated time and time again."
Well, Douglas Theobald has compiled a list of the ways in which the theory of evolution has been tested with results that are replicated again and again. My favorite test is how whenever anyone constructs a phylogenic tree, the essentially repeat the same pattern that everyone else gets.
Dr. Theobald also explains what is meant in science by being tested with results that can be replicated. If you don't understand science well enough to see how Theobald's list really does confirm the theory of evolution, then we can discuss this further. I don't know whether you really are any good as an engineer or not, but it is pretty clear from your posts that you don't understand science.
But let's discuss this in a different thread. This is pretty far removed from the topic of intelligent design.

Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by John 10:10, posted 07-04-2008 9:42 AM John 10:10 has not replied

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