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Author Topic:   Does the evidence support the Flood? (attn: DwarfishSquints)
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 286 of 293 (473857)
07-03-2008 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by rueh
07-03-2008 9:49 AM


Re: Black Sea Flood
The Noachian flood compared to real life requires much more extrapulation and "magic" than comparing the BSD to the Noachian. That and the time frame and location correlates closer than anything else that we have discovered.

Oh okay. I'll give you that.

We can't forget, though, that The FludTM was probably inspired by multiple events as it was passed on down through the ages.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by rueh, posted 07-03-2008 9:49 AM rueh has responded

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rueh
Member (Idle past 1915 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 287 of 293 (473877)
07-03-2008 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2008 10:13 AM


Re: Black Sea Flood
I agree. Before juddism became a written religion the stories were probably apt to changes either through personnel interpretation or changing world views. That being the case however, that means that the BSD isn't necessarily excluded from those same changes, inorder to draw it inline with the communities own beliefs.

Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

Edited by rueh, : No reason given.


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 288 of 293 (473940)
07-03-2008 7:45 PM


Black Sea Flood
In all likelihood, there was a flood, albeit, not quite of Biblical proportions, but huge enough to be written about by different people.

We forget that myths don't generally spring out of thin air. There is almost always something actual that precipitates. It later synthesizes through embellishment.


“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo
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rueh
Member (Idle past 1915 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 289 of 293 (474211)
07-06-2008 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Hyroglyphx
07-03-2008 7:45 PM


Re: Black Sea Flood
quote:
In closing, I have a two part question geared towards theists and atheists alike. To the atheists, I ask, what does this information say to you about the validity of a considerable flood? Note that we do not, as of yet, know with certainty that this was a "global" flood. We know empirically that this was considered global to the inhabitants. Does this mean that such a Flood really did exist? If so, is this inconsequential to you?

The second question is geared towards biblicists. This study, conducted in 1993, has had virtually no coverage. And of that which is mentioned, it is routinely dumbed down in an apparent view of it being inconsequential. Do you find it disheartening that some people have divorced themselves from this discovery, and if so, do you attribute it to them denying it over its greater implications-- such as, the denial of the Bible's historicity?


I think over all it is a great example of how people on both sides of a debate, will ignore all the facts and implications of the evidence in order to hold true to their small understanding of something that can have greater implications. If the theist was able to treat this scenario as way to understand how people record their history and how legends develop. They would have a better grasp on why they believe what they believe, instead of having to fall back on faith for faith alone sake. The same holds true for the atheist. It would allow them to use what little written history from antiquity that we do have as a reference. i believe if this theory is indeed true, it perfectly demonstrates how slivers of truth can come through in all the stories and myths that man has created.


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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1147 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 290 of 293 (474266)
07-07-2008 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by rueh
07-06-2008 7:01 PM


Re: Black Sea Flood
quote:
I think over all it is a great example of how people on both sides of a debate, will ignore all the facts and implications of the evidence in order to hold true to their small understanding of something that can have greater implications. If the theist was able to treat this scenario as way to understand how people record their history and how legends develop. They would have a better grasp on why they believe what they believe, instead of having to fall back on faith for faith alone sake. The same holds true for the atheist. It would allow them to use what little written history from antiquity that we do have as a reference. i believe if this theory is indeed true, it perfectly demonstrates how slivers of truth can come through in all the stories and myths that man has created.

Whoa, Rueh and NJ, wait a minute. In your eagerness to "treat both sides fairly" you both are muddying things up just a bit. Non young earth creationists (they aren't all atheists, by the way) do not deny history - whether oral or written. Nor do they deny that local floods may have occured that local people thought were world wide floods and that may have generated various flood myths. The Black Sea flood poses no "problem" for those opposing the YEC scenario. We do not deny that even the most fantastic stories in the Bible and other ancient texts may have some factual basis. But of course the key word there is "some." Stop trying to treat this as a civil dispute where everyone has certain rights. Everyone does NOT have the right to their own facts. In the Creationist/Evolutionist debate, the facts are not equal on both sides of the debate. In fact, the Evolutionists have the facts on their side, Creationists have only religious belief.

Edited by deerbreh, : No reason given.


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 291 of 293 (474354)
07-07-2008 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by deerbreh
07-07-2008 12:00 PM


Re: Black Sea Flood
Stop trying to treat this as a civil dispute where everyone has certain rights. Everyone does NOT have the right to their own facts. In the Creationist/Evolutionist debate, the facts are not equal on both sides of the debate. In fact, the Evolutionists have the facts on their side, Creationists have only religious belief.

We're discussing the Flood, as presented in the Bible. I'm merely giving my take on it. I believe that there was a very large and catastrophic flood, based on the evidence, and that in the minds of the writers who wrote about it (Moses was not the only one) that it encompassed the whole world.

I haven't made mention to anyone's rights or treated it as a civil dispute. I'm just throwing my opinion out there.


“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo
This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by deerbreh, posted 07-07-2008 12:00 PM deerbreh has not yet responded

    
rueh
Member (Idle past 1915 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 292 of 293 (474406)
07-08-2008 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by deerbreh
07-07-2008 12:00 PM


Re: Black Sea Flood
Your right in a sense, I do have a tendencey to over generalize. However we were not discussing the creation/evolution topic here. We were talking about what geological evidence may support a flood of a porpurtion described in antiquity. I was trying to assert that we all heve a tendencey to gloss over any evidence that may not fall directly in line with your chosen veiw point. Regardless of what that veiw point is that you have choosen.
In line with the topic I assert that the geology does not support a world wide flood as described in the bible, but it may indicate a very large local flood that has been imbellished through culture and the ages to what many today consider to be the noachian flood.
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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1147 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 293 of 293 (474423)
07-08-2008 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by rueh
07-08-2008 9:45 AM


Re: Black Sea Flood
The difference in scope and plausibility between large local floods and a world wide flood is so great that it is quite silly to even suggest that confirmed geological evidence for a large local flood would present any kind of problem for naysayers of Noah's Flood. Of course the naysayers recognize that flood myths likely had some basis in reality. It really goes without saying and proves....actually, nothing of interest to a geologist. To someone who makes a study of myths and their origins, yes. But to a geologist, no, and this thread is about geological evidence for a global flood, is it not? Origins of flood myths is actually off topic.
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