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Author Topic:   Discovery or Ignorance: The Choice Is yours?
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 326 of 402 (474494)
07-08-2008 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 3:27 PM


According to the story, the guppies that changed somewhat were still of the guppy species, and did not mutate into some other species altogether. That may be evolution as you know it, but it does not prove the ToE in any way, shape or form.
I didn't make myself clear. The guppies actually speciated into two new species. They underwent reproductive isolation and, after a number of generations, were not able to breed. This defines speciation, because now, genetic information cannot be shared between the two populations, and evolution can only occur on the population level.
Suppose that instead of becoming smaller and changing mating habits, which are not small changes at all, one population was selected for larger fins, so they could swim faster to escape predators. Then suppose one population was selected for a longer jaw, to grab more food. After a number of these selection events, the two species would not look anything like each other, as different as tuna and swordfish. This would be evolution, and as always, people like you would contend that the two species never had a common ancestor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by John 10:10, posted 07-08-2008 3:27 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by dwise1, posted 07-08-2008 9:20 PM Organicmachination has replied
 Message 352 by John 10:10, posted 07-09-2008 9:45 AM Organicmachination has not replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 327 of 402 (474497)
07-08-2008 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 3:17 PM


Re: Observations
Scientists who believe in their Creator do all manner of scientific research, just like scientists who do not believe in their Creator. The valuable scientists are those who prove their research endeavors to a high degree of accuracy, regardless of their Creator beliefs. Our Creator has given creative abilities to mankind. Many honor their Creator and give Him the glory for their creative abilities, while many do not.
How is this a barrier to understanding and progress?
You completely misunderstood the question. Straggler asked whether specifically creationist science, not science done by christians, has benefited the human race in any way. Has any science, based fundamentally from the view that God created the Earth, ever done anything for humankind? Has any such science ever been done period?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by John 10:10, posted 07-08-2008 3:17 PM John 10:10 has replied

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 Message 353 by John 10:10, posted 07-09-2008 9:55 AM Organicmachination has not replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 329 of 402 (474499)
07-08-2008 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 318 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 5:42 PM


You must not know that the scientists proved that the fragments resulting from the bombardment of uranium by neutrons were different elements by chemical analysis.
Nice try, but no cigar!
Sure sure, they were different elements. But does every element fission like this? No? Then by your own logic, you're claim is fishy. What if chemical analysis is Satan's tool to fool scientists? Unless you can make a movie of the atom splitting into two separate atoms, emitting a ton of energy and a few more neutrons, then their claim is not true science, by your argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by John 10:10, posted 07-08-2008 5:42 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by John 10:10, posted 07-09-2008 9:59 AM Organicmachination has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 330 of 402 (474500)
07-08-2008 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by dwise1
07-08-2008 9:20 PM


Huh. I hadn't heard of ring species before. I'll have to look into that.
But, I still assume that you agree with me that speciation did, in fact, occur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by dwise1, posted 07-08-2008 9:20 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by RAZD, posted 07-08-2008 10:19 PM Organicmachination has not replied
 Message 334 by dwise1, posted 07-09-2008 2:14 AM Organicmachination has not replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 378 of 402 (474627)
07-09-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by John 10:10
07-09-2008 9:59 AM


Listen, you're the one backing up my argument.
All of my points are directly correlated from your own point of view. I can't believe you can't see it. You say that we must be able to make a movie of evolution occurring from the primordial soup up to humans to prove it as "true science", which is an absolutely ludicrous idea, and I say that you must be able to make a movie of a uranium atom actually splitting up into multiple pieces to prove that nuclear fission exists.
You won't see the evidence for evolution, so I won't see the evidence for nuclear fission.
My point is the same as your point. Do you understand?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by John 10:10, posted 07-09-2008 9:59 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by John 10:10, posted 07-09-2008 10:32 PM Organicmachination has not replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 379 of 402 (474628)
07-09-2008 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by ICANT
07-09-2008 5:36 PM


Re: Scientist
The sun also orbits the earth. It just takes 200 million years to make the trip. If I am wrong feel free to correct me.
The sun just orbits the galactic core, not the Earth. That's like saying the Earth orbits the moon once every year.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by ICANT, posted 07-09-2008 5:36 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by ICANT, posted 07-09-2008 9:42 PM Organicmachination has not replied

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