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Author Topic:   Re-Problems With The Big Bang Theory
Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 255 of 273 (473623)
07-01-2008 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by tesla
06-30-2008 9:17 PM


Re: Discovery or Ignorance?
you observe the test results.
i don't expect everyone to "get it"
It appears to be you that is not getting it. Nobody is denying that science involves observation. However simply observing things and explaining them is not scientific investigation. It is the testing of hypotheses that makes scientific investigation the powerful tool that it is.
Without the test of theories against the facts of nature we simply have untested hypotheses at best, and subjectively derived philosophically biased wishful thinking at worst.
Whilst I would defend current cosmological models specifically with regard to having been tested against nature by means of prediction this is kind of off topic. As such I will propose a new topic on this subject more generally sometime soon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by tesla, posted 06-30-2008 9:17 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by tesla, posted 07-10-2008 2:10 AM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 266 of 273 (474945)
07-12-2008 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by tesla
07-10-2008 2:10 AM


Re: Discovery or Ignorance?
you can't run a test other than logic in which to observe the origin of all things.
Of course you can. It is called prediction and verification.
A method of objective testing that is woefully lacking in any creationist methodologies and which you are conveniently ignoring.
Can you explain how the predicted existence and value of the CMB, for example, is not an objective test of theory?
you can discover how some mechanism's work. but your math your using to model the universe is based WAY to much on assumptions that cannot be proven.
You seem to be ignorant of the wealth of observational and predictive physical evidence on which BBT is founded.
when i explored origin i threw the assumptions out and followed definates. the most definite of science is a science "law" which can be expanded, but are not ever completely incorrect.
the greatest proof of what I've shown you is in the observation of those laws. existing is a definite assumption. to question that you exist and are existing within "existence" is DEFINATE.
What laws are you talking about? What proof are you on about? Science is not in the business of proof or even definites so I am not sure what form of investigation you are undertaking.
existence had to "be" before anything that did not exist that "does exist" now, COULD be.
This sounds like a theistic preconceived conclusion to me.
On what basis are you so sure of this foundation? Common sense? Is it common sense that you (and all other macroscopic objects) are 99.9999% empty space? If common sense answered all questions there would be little need for scientific enquiry.
The rest of your post amounts to an unnecessarily long winded and frankly not very articulate argument of incredulity.
how can a single entity, with no outside variables, NO outside interactions, become more complex without direction?
The conclusions of science suggest that omplex things evolve from less complex things slowly and gradually.
The physical, predicted and tested evidence strongly implies this.
What is your alternative and, other than incredulity, what is your argument or evidence in favour of this alternative?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by tesla, posted 07-10-2008 2:10 AM tesla has not replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 267 of 273 (474985)
07-12-2008 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by johnfolton
07-12-2008 2:19 PM


Re: Discovery or Ignorance?
If the elements that make up the earth formed in space (big bang) then no evidence the earth itself is not 6,000-13,000 years of age.
Actually most of the elements have been created in stars via a process of nuclear fusion. We are, as they say, all made of stardust.
Only the very lightest elements formed as a dierct consequence of the BB alone.
Like how are planets formed is it not from the energies generated from nothing increasing from the point in time when nothing mathematically was the size of a pea.
Planets are formed when the various heavier elements gravitationally attract to form more massive bodies. Your description is nonsensical.
If you take gold and put it into space does it not vaporize and escape to become a part of the fabric of space.
What process are you talking about here? I am unaware that lumps of gold will spontaneaously vaporise in space...... What are you talking about?
If the fabric of space contains all the elements that make up the earth then due to collisions either in the center of the milkey way part of the fabric of space meaning all we know how long it takes to decay within the earth but not how long it takes to wind up the nucleur clocks by a big bang senerio meaning how wound up the elements are has nothing to do with the age of the earth.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that the chemical elemenets A) Make up the fabric of spacetime and B) Were directly created in the BB. Neither is true.
As for dating - Radiometric dating techniques depend on the relative abundance of the decaying element and the stable element that this decays into. They are thus not subject to the initial assumption of age you seem to be implying. If we know the half life of a substance and can measure the amount of the substance as compared to the amount of the post decay isotope we can determine the age of an object.
In short your whole post is a mish mash of misunderstanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by johnfolton, posted 07-12-2008 2:19 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by johnfolton, posted 07-12-2008 10:59 PM Straggler has not replied

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