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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 31 of 531 (475201)
07-14-2008 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Buzsaw
07-13-2008 11:55 PM


Re: Few Are Chosen
Buzsaw writes:
Of course no televangelist needs money to preach the gospel on TV or radio. The stations just dole out the air time to them. I'm sure Billy Graham would attest to that.
Hi Buz Phat asked how many I would say is on the level. I gave the answer that I believe is correct.
Now there may be those that ask for money that is on the level. I don't know.
Do they need money to operate? Yes lot's of it.
But I don't find where Jesus sent out any televangelists to convert the world.
I do find where He gave the local Church a job. They were told as you go through the world make disciples, baptize them, and then teach them the all things.
Now if a Church wants to have a TV ministry and pay for such a ministry that is great. If other churches want to help them that is great. If they ask for money they forfited their job.
I find everything is to be done through the local Church. No one else has any authority to preach, teach or baptize.
We take an offering on Sunday morning only. Money is never mentioned and I never preach on money. It is never mentioned from the pulpit ever. We always have plenty.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 11:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 07-15-2008 3:30 AM ICANT has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 32 of 531 (475205)
07-14-2008 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Buzsaw
07-13-2008 11:09 PM


Re: Specifically to the point
I was asking NJ for his opinion of you. It's not like asking you would do any good. If you were lying why would you admit it here ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 11:09 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 531 (475314)
07-15-2008 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by ICANT
07-14-2008 12:46 AM


Show Me The Money
I CANT writes:
Now if a Church wants to have a TV ministry and pay for such a ministry that is great. If other churches want to help them that is great. If they ask for money they forfeited their job.
How then can they get the money?
The money issue alone doesn't condemn the preachers in my mind. If people want to give them money, that is on the people. Its no different than making some athlete or entertainer wealthy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ICANT, posted 07-14-2008 12:46 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 07-15-2008 6:32 AM Phat has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 34 of 531 (475321)
07-15-2008 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
07-15-2008 3:30 AM


Re: Show Me The Money
Phat writes:
How then can they get the money?
Phat the membership of the Church is supposed to finance the operation of the Church. If the Church then offers a program on TV the Church should pay the bill. Not the viewers.
Let me give an example.
The fire dept. raises many thousands of dollars each year for Jerry's kids by standing with their boots on street corners. When the numbers are announced the fire dept gave so much to Jerry's kids. No they did not give they got people to give. Many of the other businesses do the same thing with their jars in the stores.
Phat writes:
The money issue alone doesn't condemn the preachers in my mind.
That only shows they are doing it to make money instead of providing a service.
But to me the money is the least important issue.
The authority to preach is the biggest problem to me.
Who does Benny Hinn have to answer too? Benny Hinn Ministries.
Who does Joyce Meyer have to answer too? Joyce Meyer Ministries.
The list could go on and on.
Where do they get the authority to preach, teach and baptize from.
The Church is the only one that has that authority. Matt. 28:16-20
Jesus gave the disciples not the Apostles the authority to go, to preach, to baptize and to teach.
Not televangelists.
Benny Hinn came to the Cayman Islands while I was there. He had a big crusade planned. The first night when the offering plates were passed. He said there is not enough money pass the plates again.
Upon conclusion of the services He got on his plane and left the Island.
Does that tell you why he was there?
Phat writes:
If people want to give them money, that is on the people.
No it is on the wolves that are in sheep's clothing that is fleecing the gullible people in the name of Jesus.
Phat writes:
Its no different than making some athlete or entertainer wealthy.
It is much different. People go to these people expecting a miracle from God. Because that is what they promise.
People go to football, baseball, basketball golf games, auto races and a lot of other things to be entertained.
But no man is worth a million dollars an hour to play a kids game.
No preacher is worth 2 million dollars a week either. (That could support a lot of missionaries for a long time.)
The wolves in sheep's clothing and those high paid jocks would starve to death if they had to depend on my money to eat.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 07-15-2008 3:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 07-16-2008 11:52 AM ICANT has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 531 (475498)
07-16-2008 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by ICANT
07-15-2008 6:32 AM


Apostolic Succession
I CANT writes:
Where do they get the authority to preach, teach and baptize from.
The Church is the only one that has that authority. Matt. 28:16-20
So then do you believe in Apostolic Succession?
I always wondered about that "who does one have to answer to" thing.
If you and I and three other people started a church, would we not be accountable one to another? What makes a positional hierarchy any more powerful than fellow believers? After all, Bishops and cardinals can be just as corrupt or sinful as any other group of people....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 07-15-2008 6:32 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ICANT, posted 07-16-2008 5:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 36 of 531 (475547)
07-16-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
07-16-2008 11:52 AM


Re: Apostolic Succession
Phat writes:
So then do you believe in Apostolic Succession?
That should have been clear, but since it wasn't. NO
Phat writes:
If you and I and three other people started a church, would we not be accountable one to another?
Three born again scripturally baptized believers can form a church.
All those requirements must be met. In order for it to be a Scriptural New Testament Church.
They would be accountable to each other and they would be accountable to God individually and as a group.
Then they would be responsible for preaching the gospel as they go through the world. Baptizing those who became believers, and then teaching the all things Jesus taught.
Jesus never taught a prosperity gospel.
That is what all the people we have been talking about preach.
Sow that seed money and God will bless you.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 07-16-2008 11:52 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 531 (514060)
07-03-2009 11:13 AM


Religion Can Be A Drug
Nobody ever did it like Benny! (But he tarnishes the name of Christianity)

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-03-2009 11:37 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 39 by Bailey, posted 07-03-2009 12:02 PM Phat has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 531 (514064)
07-03-2009 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
07-03-2009 11:13 AM


Re: Religion Can Be A Drug
I can't even begin to imagine how big of a piece of shit you'd have to be to be this bold.
There's no way this guy actually believes in God or damnation.
Cuz for damn sure, if there is a God who designed damnation, this piece shit will meet his Maker.
How can you be that big of a scumbag? It's just so hard to imagine going through your life knowing you're a conman and a swindler without feeling remorse.
Maybe he's a sociopath and is incapable of feeling sympathy or empathy. All I know is I'm at a loss for words trying to find a worthy description for this guy.

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 07-03-2009 11:13 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Bailey, posted 07-03-2009 12:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 43 by ICANT, posted 07-05-2009 8:56 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 44 by Brian, posted 07-06-2009 7:14 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4369 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 39 of 531 (514066)
07-03-2009 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
07-03-2009 11:13 AM


the effects of a hardcore binge
Re: Religion Can Be A Drug
Thanks for the exchange.
Hope things are well ...
Phat writes:
Nobody ever did it like Benny!
I cannot even bring myself towards watching the video ... po' lil' bugga.
(But he tarnishes the name of Christianity)
We all do, Phat ...
We all do.
One Love

I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.
Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 07-03-2009 11:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4369 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 40 of 531 (514067)
07-03-2009 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Hyroglyphx
07-03-2009 11:37 AM


Mammon diet ...
Thanks for the exchange Hyro ...
Hope things are good with you.
I can't even begin to imagine how big of a piece of shit you'd have to be to be this bold.
There's no way this guy actually believes in God or damnation.
Cuz for damn sure, if there is a God who designed damnation, this piece shit will meet his Maker.
How can you be that big of a scumbag? It's just so hard to imagine going through your life knowing you're a conman and a swindler without feeling remorse.
Maybe he's a sociopath and is incapable of feeling sympathy or empathy. All I know is I'm at a loss for words trying to find a worthy description for this guy.
I thought I was harsh! Deep healing breaths hyro ... Whooo saaah
lol - I feel you though ... it isn't easy to sit back and watch. It doesn't seem right either.
How people think they can serve, both, the Father and Mammon remains a mystery to me.
One Love
Edited by Bailey, : sp.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-03-2009 11:37 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 41 of 531 (514237)
07-05-2009 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
07-09-2008 6:45 AM


Re: Specifically to the point
Phat writes:
One question, though. When Benny Hinn "annoints" the crowd, as seen here are they:
1) Brainwashed?
2) set ups?(they are paid to pretend to fall?)
3) Power of suggestion? (One guy falls so everyone thinks they must fall?)
i think, without realizing it, they are opening a door for the demons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 07-09-2008 6:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 42 of 531 (514265)
07-05-2009 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ICANT
07-09-2008 4:44 PM


Re: Specifically to the point
sorry realized post I answered was way old.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 07-09-2008 4:44 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 43 of 531 (514286)
07-05-2009 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Hyroglyphx
07-03-2009 11:37 AM


Re: Religion Can Be A Drug
Hi Hyroglyphx,
Hyroglyphx writes:
How can you be that big of a scumbag? It's just so hard to imagine going through your life knowing you're a conman and a swindler without feeling remorse.
It's easy, he believes he is doing God's will.
Matthew writes:
7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Not everybody that thinks they are doing God's will is.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-03-2009 11:37 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 44 of 531 (514318)
07-06-2009 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Hyroglyphx
07-03-2009 11:37 AM


Re: Religion Can Be A Drug
You really cant blame Benny here, you have to blame the morons who go along to this crook.
I do agree that this is very sad, but I'd group all clergy as being the same, they are all crooks and liars.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-03-2009 11:37 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phage0070, posted 07-06-2009 11:26 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 07-06-2009 4:15 PM Brian has replied
 Message 48 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-06-2009 9:03 PM Brian has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 531 (514329)
07-06-2009 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Brian
07-06-2009 7:14 AM


Re: Religion Can Be A Drug
Brian writes:
...they are all crooks and liars.
I don't know, I think most are actually just mislead. It is sort of like snipe hunting, and the clergy are those that stay out all night. The rest of us just came back to camp after 30 minutes or so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Brian, posted 07-06-2009 7:14 AM Brian has not replied

  
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