The Mysterious Wives of Genesis Four

Reply to: kbertscheYour post is the first one I have read on this forum to quote the Bible correctly, and not to deny the message.sl33w

While it is entirely possible that the Bible doesn't name most women and often don't mention sisters or mothers, that much is possible. The only thing it could mean, to a literalist, is that it is speaking about his two sisters. (That's right, incest). Though the Law was not given yet, so it was not an affront to God.

---

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

So, in the creationist's mind, homosexuality is an abomination but incest is okay?I suppose it explains those guys chasing Clarkson, wee Hammy, and James May!

Eve was called the mother of all living. So anyone living besides Adam, had Eve as either a mother or a female ancestor.She was the mother of ALL LIVING.Any other wives for any other people were related to Eve the mother of all living.The Bible is not giving exhaustive listings of all people born. The people it singled out to mention serve the purpose of highlighting one of two things.1.) The line sample of believing people who were interested in God's salvation.2.) The line sample of unbelieving ones who didn't care and were going to go it alone without concern for God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

the bible gives the explanation itself it shows that not only were Cain and Abel born, but genesis also mentions by name a third son, Seth.
Adam and Eve had other children besides seth as well Genesis 5:4 says: “And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.”This means that Cain, Abel & Seth had sisters, and possibly other brothers not listed by name.and its not unusual that the females were not mentioned by name because moses, who wrote the book, was of a culture that did not record the names of daughters, only those of sons seeing they carried the family namethere is no confusion as to where Cain got his wife from...she was one of his sisters who went with him to the land of nod.

That was debunked years ago. No one person wrote Genesis or Exodus or Leviticus or Numbers or Deuteronomy and definitely not all 5. Ever hear of J E P D Jahwist, Eloist, Priestly & Deutronomic

---

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

i must say this is the first time i've ever heard that write of the books were ever in questionthere are plenty of references to “The book of the law of Moses” from the time of Moses’ successor, Joshua, onward and many many more references to Moses in 27 of the later Bible books. Moses’ writership was never questioned by the Jews.even the Christian Greek Scriptures make frequent mention of Moses as the writer of “the law,”would you like to expound bluescat48?

A group of theologians studied the entire Bible and from the writing style, and other types of tests determined that the various stories were written by different authors at different times. The 2 stories of creation show this. The "In the Beginning" is a JaHvist writing. The second story dealing with Adam naming animals is Priestly as is the Geneologies between Adam & Noah. Most of the Flood story is Jahvist but the added 7 pairs of the clean animals is Priestly.

---

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

HI Peg, Weirdly, that is not unusual for a Christian. I'm continually surprised by the lack of interest that Christians show in their own scripture. Never? We can only trace the claim back to the Talmud. Who knows what was believed before that.

quote:

---

The belief in Mosaic authorship is first found explicitly expressed in the Talmud, a collection of Jewish traditions and exegesis dating from the 3nd to the 6th centuries centuries CE, and was presumably based on the several verses in the Torah describing Moses writing "torah" (instruction) from God.

---

Source here Mosaic authorship - WikipediaThe third to sixth centuries CE come a long time after the supposed life of Moses. Here are a couple of favourite titbits that suggest that Moses was not the Pentateuch's author;

quote:

---

Numbers 12:3 Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.

---

If he wrote that himself, wouldn't that make him the most arrogant man in the world?

quote:

---

Deuteronomy 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

---

Does that not strike you as a bit of an odd thing for Moses to have written? How did he know the details of his own death and funeral arrangements? Look at that last bit; "unto this day." That is a pretty clear indication that the text is being written long after the event.You should listen Bluescat48. He is telling you the truth.What he is describing is called the "documentary hypothesis". It suggests that the OT is composed of work from a number of hands, each with slightly different interests, agandas and ways of describing God. You should read up on it, not least because it is central to modern Biblical scholarship. Wikipedia has a reasonable treatment of it here;Documentary hypothesis - WikipediaThere is also an excellent documentary that can help familiarise you with the concept, Who Wrote the Bible by academic theologian (and Christian) Robert Beckford. You can watch it here;Error 404 (Not Found)!!1#I urge you to look into this. Uncritically accepting Moses as the author of the Pentateuch strikes me as being disrespectful to the text, which is far more complicated that that. The Pentateuch is the work of many authors and trying to pin it down to one oversimplifies it.Mutate and Survive.

---

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

authenticity of Deuteronomy is found before the Tulmud by the fact that Jesus repeatedly quoted from it as inspired Scripture. (Matt. 4:4, 7, 10 from Deut. 8:3; 6:16, 13; Mark 10:3-5 from Deut. 24:1-3; Mark 12:30 from Deut. 6:5) In fact, Deuteronomy is quoted more than eighty times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. therefore there is plenty of evidence that the Jews of 1st Century believed in its authenticity and were using it if this verse was somewhere early on in the book, i would find it odd, but the case is that it is directly at the end of the book. Moses did have an assistant in Joshua. The likely senario is that it was his assistant who wrote these words as a closing statement to Moses already written work.interestingly too, the following book 'Joshua' opens with very similar words..."And it came about after the death of Moses..."the word 'AND' in itself is a conjunction. Nobody would start a brand new piece of writing with a conjunction.

thanks for that Bluescat48.you just gave me something to look into, which i did and am not convinced.it seems the underlying basis for the documentary theory is the use of different titles for God, They are saying it indicates different writers. But thats not a reasonable assumption. Why cant a single writer use various titles for the sake of variety or to reveal a different attribute of God?Jesus used various titles when talking about God.Even some of todays novelists use different styles of writing depending on the type of book they are writing.i also found this

None of those quotes directly attribute the actual writing of the Pentateuch to Moses. The New Testament authors probably did believe that Moses authored the Pentateuch, but none of those passages demonstrate it. In any case, it hardly matters what they thought, since they were writing long after Moses' supposed death.All those passages demonstrate is the obvious; that the Gospel writers knew the Old testament well and held it to be sacred scripture. I'm not denying that at all. The New Testament books go to great pains to praise the Old. That's not the issue. The issue is that the Old Testament shows very clear signs of being written by multiple authors, even within the books traditionally attributed to Moses. That is the usual apologetic explanation. Interesting that you are able to accept at least some level of multiple authorship. It still fails to address the evidence for multiple authorship that exists throughout the Pentateuch (or Numbers 12:3).The different sources use different names for God and employ different styles. They have different preoccupations. They even tell some of the stories slightly differently to each other, whence disagreements between passages, such as the two slightly different creations of man and woman in Genesis or the differing numbers of animals on the ark. These disparities are the result of the text being edited together from related yet differing sources.Did you follow any of those links? I would hope that you are willing to look into this with an open mind. It is an important school of thought in modern Biblical scholarship. Since you are keenly interested in matters Biblical, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to know about it.Mutate and Survive

---

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

No different writing styles even within the same book that would not occur if one person compiled the whole 5 books.

---

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Hi Peg,There is a really well done documentary that (in part) discusses the documentary hypothesis. The movie is called "Buried Secrets of the Bible". You can view it online at The Bible's Buried Secrets | NOVA | PBS.
The series presents, imo, a very fair treatment of the evidence for the hypothesis. Outside of that is a fascinating show, I learned that some things I thought were myths may have a basis in reality and some things I believed to be true are probably mythological (based upon current archaeology).

---

Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

no, they were the children of adam and eve. you were told a false explanation this is it. God did not outlaw incest till after the flood, long after. his relatives. keep in mnd that cain and abel probably were not the first children born to adam and eve and the bible doesn't say they were. not the Bible not the truth. as the name says-they were false books written in the names of famous people to sell them. that is why the gnostic gospel have such biblical names. he is half wrong. it is about the creation of the world and all nations. itis also a history of the jewish people and God working in the world and people's lives. you need to learn about and understand the order f things with God as stated earlier in this post, incest was outlawed after the flood this is just wrong. JEPD or the documentary hypothesis is a figment of the imaginationof those who do not believe nor accept the Bible. no such works have ever been discovered, nor have they been alluded to or referred to or even quoted in ancient mss.. there is no record of them whatsoever in any form or format. wellhausen originated this concept and never produced one shred of evidence to support it. {reasd Kitchen's book On the Reliability of the Old Testament} be more specific please. it was an unbeliever who concocted this charade, just like those who concocted the document 'Q', and it is unbelievers as well as minimalists who champion this idea even though NOT ONE OF them has ever seen one page of their mss. they never existed. yet today we have people who talk about themselves inthethird person all the time. this is not proof nor evidence thatmoses did not write the Bible and you must remember that Jesus quoted and stated that Moses wrote some of the books. no he is not and neither are you. wrong again and not one shred of real evidence has been produced to support such a claim. it is all hearsay at best. actually starting a sentence with the word 'and' is correct in some cases. actually it i snot. maybe to some minimalists but to the whole of biblical scholarship it has been proven to be false and only the diehards hang onto it. writing styles means nothing and is not evidence for a different author. you all use different writing styles when you write your girlfriend, your parents/mother, your best friend or writing about daily events. this is a moot point and cannot be used to judge anything. not that good. i think i have a copy of it around here somewhere. it is the usual crap that secularist pull out every so often to discourage belief in the bible.