The world has turned upside down!!! (Re: McCain vs. Obama for President)

Evidence? Evidence? No, if I had to guess, you are looking at the gibberish that you read in anonymous emails sent by halfwitted racists.Try looking at the fruit instead.By their fruits shall ye judge them --- well, go ahead. You say Obama is "a black supremacist, that makes Malcolm X look like a sunday school teacher". What fruit has he borne that make you say that?Or are you not looking at the fruit, but at the poison that people are dripping at the roots of the tree?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

here is my original line about NM in message #62: so contagious that liberals in here jump on me for the "so called" mistake by Rrhain. he put words into my mouth and insiuated something i did not say. and two others now have joined in, Ignorance is definately contagious. thanks for proving your own point. especially after i took time to relate the original context of our debate a second time.you guys are horrible at this strawman thing.Edited by Artemis Entreri, : to generalEdited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

Which two others? I only see Taz.

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

what matters is not how may people jump on the misconception board, but afyter explaininging it twice people still did, and then taz had the nerve to break rule #10 on it with me even though he has no clue whatg the context of what i said was.

quote:

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Looking at the fruit.

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Okay. Obama has been a U.S. senator for three years now, and an Illinois state senator for seven years before that, so Obama now has a 10 year long track record of legislation voted for/against, and speeches given in support or against all this legislation.Personally, I have no idea what all this nonsense about Muslim madrassas or Write's "black nationalism" or Farrakhan has anything to do with this election. If anyone is trying to get an idea of what Obama might stand for as President, he has a pretty long record of actual political activity.

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Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

Dr as you know I am a pastor. I have preached in several black churches. I have many black pastor friends. We have played golf together, bowled together and went fishing together.I was involved in a mission work for 15 years where we had members from Africa, Columbia, Niquaraga, El Salvador, Honduras, Trinidad, Jamaica and others.None of these black pastors or people of color in the mission work have ever entertained the idea's of the Trinity United Church of Christ Obama was baptized in, was married in, raised his children in and supported with his tithes and offerings for 20 yearsYou have heard the old saying put your money where your mouth is. Well Obama put his money where Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr's mouth was for 20 years.For 20 years it was perfectly acceptable but when it became election time dump Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.Claim ignorance by saying I wasn't there when he said those things.
For 20 years he missed every service where they were mentioned. If you believe that I got some nice high dry swampland in Florida I will sell you.I am not going to post the things on the church web site you can visit it for yourself. Read About Us and Mission that will tell you what the church stood for 20 years ago and what it stands for today.You will find it Here If you will notice you will not find a statement of faith and belief concerning God.When you get through reading those facts then go to the book store and purchase Obama's two books and read them as I have.Read the statement's of his mother and his wife if you haven't already.You say examine the fruit.I examined his religious beliefs of black liberation theology practiced for 20 years.I examined Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama.I examined The Audacity of Hope by Barack Obama.After examining the evidence I concluded Barack Obama to be a black supremacist.I concluded that since you did not have to question where Malcolm X stood even though he flopped a couple of time you still knew what he was standing for at the moment.And Barack Obama is trying to conceal or deny everything he stands for that makes Malcolm X look a lot better.In the beginning I was afraid of what would happen if Obama becomes the next president.As time wears on I am becoming more concerned of what will happen if Obama does not become the next president.I will include one quote from the Mission statement of What Trinity Is About. W.E.B. DuBois "problem of color line".
Trinity "He was absolutely correct".
Trinity "Our job....eradicate it".God Bless,30

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Trot it out.I find he talked about cleaning up asbestos in a public housing project that still has a massive asbestos problem.I can't find where he appeared in Cook County court once.I find where he appeared in five district court cases in federal court in Chicago.I find where he appeared before the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals 5 times.Its neat how you can vote yes, no, or present which he did a lot.He also missed 1 of 5 votes in the Senate.In the Senate he sponsored a bill to promoted relief, security and democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo." That passed.He along with 9 others has sponsored a bill called the Global Poverty Act. To obligate taxpayers of the US to give a percentage (0.7) of GNP on foreign handouts. That is about 30 billion above what is wasted now.Nice track record.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Why? I could care less about Obama's record myself.I'm just pointing out the absurdity of talking about how he was raised or to which church he used to belong when one could actually look at an entirely relevant public record to come to a determination of the sort of public policies he would support. That is, if one was really interested in what sort of president he would make.Personally, all this talk about being a Muslim, or having a black nationalist pastor sounds like someone has decided that Republican = good, Democrat = bad, and just stretching for any retarded reason to justify this.Now, how you decide to vote is up to you -- I could care less. I'm more interested in the poor reasoning skills exhibited by the Obama-is-a-secret-Muslim crowd or the Obama-must-hate-whitey-like-his-former-pastor crowd.- Which is what you should have been focusing on to begin with, not this ridiculous look-at-this-embarrassing-factoid-from-his-past junk. Or at least you should have if you were really interested in choosing a president based on prudent public policy.

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Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

In respect to his controversies, I think the greater point of what some of his critics are saying could be summarized in two adages: That the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, and bad company corrupts good character. There is no way that Obama could not know that his pastor was a loonbat having gone to the church as often as he did. In fact, his books detail their numerous encounters, and he makes it obvious that he respects and agrees with much of it.The fact that his own words would highly indicate that he privately harbors racial anymosity is the only thing that makes it relevant, otherwise I would tend to agree with your assessment. Democrats and Republicans have always, and presumably will always play these little cat and mouse games, and these he-said, she-said policies. It's politics. In all fairness, Obama himself stated that he was inexperienced just four years ago. He just got elected to the Senate, relatively speaking. In Senate seniority, he ranks in at 98.Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

He has no track record that only leaves what he is.Do you think that after 20 years agreeing with a message and financing it that it didn't really stick?If you think that you don't know anything about religion then.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I don't know how it is possible that you have read those books and came to the conclusion from their content that Obama is a black supremacist.I am willing to bet that by "examined" you have looked at quotes pulled from those books out of context, produced by right-wing smear jobs that can only attack Obama by making up stuff because they have nothing to say about his policies that most American's happen to agree with.In the news today, after weeks of McCain, Bush, and other neo-cons slamming Obama for continuing to press for a timeline for getting out of Iraq and lo-and-behold, it seems like the Iraqis prefer Obama's idea over the Bush/McCain policy of permanent bases and a longstanding "status of forces agreement".How much did we have to hear about so called "appeasment" regarding Obama wanting to open up talks with Iran just to find out that Condi Rice has set up diplomatic relations with Iran, and that Israel had been in talks with Syria even as our Retard-in-Chief stood there in the Kenesset and railed against diplomacy as an avenue to pursue US-Israeli interests?Right wingers cannot find anything to say about Obama except to make him seem scary to the public by appealing to his race and his biography. This is because they are slowly taking positions that are exactly what Obama has been talking about for months. We now have Bush and the State Dept talking about "time horizons" for getting out of Iraq. If they keep shifting positions this much then by November they are going to be shouting "Yes We Can!" and doing fist-bumps all around.It must be a very depressing time as a Republican to see the total castration of your party once the reality of the situation of the world finally bears fruit and you can no longer simply issue denials from behind the stand of the White House Press Secretary. Even those guys are coming out now adays to proclaim the lies, torture, and corruption fest that has been this disgrace of an administration.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

It is difficult to walk away not thinking that he at least harbors a spirit of racially charged animosity. Read msg 114 and click all appropriate links. The problem with Obama, aside from his penchant towards obsessing over race issues, he really has no policies to speak of. He just sort of foists platitudes without really describing how said plan would be initiated. A lot of people have picked up on this, especially his whole "change" political slogan. This humorous non-partisan cartoon even calls him out on it.The rest of your post is an uber-liberal screed railing against uber-conservatives, and has less to do with Obama [the topic] than it does with scourging GWB and neocons. Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typo

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

Yea, I saw those. Thats is all shallow out of context media representation. You honestly think that YouTube video is good characterization of what Obama represents?It is a right-wing storyline that Obama is an empty suit. It is part of the same strategy that I talked about in my previous post. They cannot counter his ideas because every time they try they fall flat on their face. It is demonstrable. So they just stick to the talking points about him being "inexperienced" and ..oh...by the way....he's black Except for the parts of my post where I was contrasting the hypocrisy of people like Bush and McCain who have consistently opposed Obama's ideas only to turn around and have them backfire by endorsing those ideas after rebranding them. You know, the part of the post you entirely failed to address.WTF is a "time horizon" exactly NJ and how is that different from a "time line"?Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

YouTube has nothing to do with it. YouTube is the intermediary that allows people to post videos. Obama was reading from his own book, from his own words, straight from his mouth, so that it is impossible to come to any other conclusion other than the one he intended. Obama simply isn't as squeaky clean as he would have the world believe. Bottom line...I can't vote for somebody like him, and I can't vote for somebody like McCain. So bringing up McCain with me is useless, cuz you won't see me defending him. Again, he said it himself that he was, as you call it, a "empty suit." It's a little tougher to cry right-wing conspiracy when it comes straight from the horses mouth. Considering that the Bush Administration had more black officials within the current administration, more than any other in the history of the presidency, again the right-wing conspiracy rant turns from a raging inferno to sizzling embers. Just focus on the issue here.Besides, I know many conservatives that would absolutely love for either Rice or Powell to run. If either of them ran right now, I wouldn't hesitate to vote for either. And wouldn't that be something if it were Condi? The first black president would also be the first female president. This thread is about Obama, and whether Obama is a good candidate to be the next president of the United States. Bush had innumerable failures during his tenure, and McCain certainly appears like he'll follow suit. So now that you have no more scarecrows and distractions, let's get back on topic -- Obama. Uhhhh.... I have no idea what you are referencing. Can you elaborate?

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

Have you read the books?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."