do you really Believe we are damned?

Well the problem with people is they condemn themselves to hell in their own minds.Jesus says believe in his name and have everlasting life. Personally I think thats a good deal. But first you must see the error of mans ways, to deny sin is silly, would you call murder, rape, money, greed e.t.c. sin? If you don't and we don't admitt that we all have dirty hands in this world then that is foolish. No one can tell you you are going to hell, if you were catholic once and they told you this then they severly let you down. Jesus was offered a chance to stone a prostitute with sin remember, but he said to her he chose not to condemn her, as he is merciful. I find it a great shame you have this thing about being damned.L isten to me not catholics or religous people, you and I are in the same boat I have sinned and you have, but Jesus payed for all of us to get to heaven, try listening to his words and not ppeople's, for once and you'll discover a friend not a condmner. Remember even the jews expected the Messiah to come as a raging lion with legions of angels to destroy the romans, but did they get a condemner or a life giver who healed, I think it was the latter somehow!

Well personally I think bad people go to hell. If I go to heaven and someone I deeply love is not there because they didn't believe in Jesus, personally I will be very upset and will probably ask to join that person wherever they are. I can only pray they do believe in Jesus, afterall Zephyr was he a bad person to believe in, forget the religious they are the people who offtrack you , the one who welcomes you when you are sorry is Jesua, the one who WELCOMES you has no ulterior motive because he loves YOU for YOU whether you are down and out and no one knows you , he is the one who WELCOME s you.

All I am saying is that if someone I deeply love is not there then I would want to be with them, to hell with my morals they are nothing to do with it, they are nothing compared to the righteoussness of God.It's a shame you did not get what I was trying to say, I may indeed go to hell or heaven as I believe both are real, the question is if I can forget my morals and believe in God's son rather than perish why can't you. Ask yourself 'what if he is real, why didn't I just believe on his name?it didn't cost me anything?is it worth eternity ?

'is a hindu or some other religon going to hell? 'That judgement is for God not me, personally I think it will largely depend on what they did in their lives as I am also guilty of sin and I will also be judged.

'mike you did say if you don't believe in christ you will go to hell'NO I DID NOT, you take this totally out of context I never said that, I may have in my babble mentioned hell but I have in no way said 'you are going to hell' I have offered even the opposite to this I said if someone I loved went to hell because they did not believe in Christ then I would be unhappy THAT IS ALL I SAID. Take it back or find the qoute!

YES BUT it is not my right to tell someone they are going to hell as I would be judging them. Why do you want me to say 'yes you are going to hell if you are against Christ' what does it matter if I believe it or not? are you saying I have no right to believe in this? The fact is I am not worthy to judge a fellow servant of God as God quite clearly says in the scripture, you however are trying to get me to judge someone!

Thankyou I really do feel like a one man army at the moment, facing five thousand. lol. you are right I dont seek to judge anyone and tell myself off an awful lot if I even vere towards that road.

'You must realize however that the army, in which you are enrolled, has a history of bringing hell to life'I am a follower of christ. I believe in Yahweh, Yeshua and the holy spirit. You say I am in an army of many but the word 'christian' does not fit what I am about any longer as I honestly dont know what 'christian' means anymore. I say I am a one man army because my beliefs are basically too different from 'christians' or 'catholics' I do not attend any church a I believe they have destroyed what used to be called 'follower of Christ' by threatening people with hell for instance. But Jesus does not say threaten people with hell and he also doesn't say you have to go to church. So my battle really is a lone one.

Yes but 'goats' I personally think he means evil people, ofcourse I am probably wrong but I think the goats will be murderers, rapists e.t.c. As for believing on his name it definately applies if you want to go to his kingdom (I believe ). As he refers to heaven as 'The kingdom of God' he also says he is the door or 'gate' in which we must enter through. I suppose you could say he doesn't want anyone to go to his party if they dont even akcnowledge even the possibility that he died for them. I mean it's not a lot to ask when you think about it properly. I n fact its a ten second prayer. 'God if you did send your son to die for my wrongs, if there is any truth to this then thankyou Jesus for dying for my wrongs'. Now personally in a whole lifetime 10 seconds of prayer on that 'possibility' if you are not certain, is not a bad deal.For I think he will remember that 10 second prayer, and if you are that open minded then in my opinion your instantly a good scientist!

I agree !

'So, the death row inmate who has tortured and murdered people can say this moments before dying, and go to heaven, but the athiest, Hindu, Muslim, Bhuddist, Shinto, or whathaveyou who leads a moral, love-filled life, contributes to charity and is otherwise a wondeful member of society but doesn't say this prayer goes to hell?'One person is asked to go work in the field and they say 'no'and go work in the field. Another person is asked to go work in the field and say 'yes' and do not go work in the field.No one said anything about these people you mentioned going to hell. ONLY YOU!

Though you guys are determined to get me to say 'these people go to hell' I am not going to say it. My only point was that you acknowledge Jesus' actions. I admitt I said his 'party' but I was just trying to make my point. Buddhists, Hindu's e.t.c - I never even mentioned these people, and why? because I believe that each individual case is for God's judgement only. My only point was that you should acknowledge Jesus' actions.

The problem is I am a mis-understood chap most of the time. I did not want to sound like the person who is condemning everyone Asgara, I apologise if it sounded that way. As I agree with what Brian said, also I do not believe it is just down to the prayer I mentioned, as I thought it would be an open minded gesture. To say, 'no Jesus there is no way you are the truth' is in my mind, closed minded. That was my point, and also akcnowleging the 'possibilities'.

'you imply that to get to heavan you need to believe in Jesus.'I certainly believe this one of the things needed, but Schraff is suggesting it will be ALL that is needed, for instance she says if a murderer says the ten second prayer he will go to heaven but a good person wont. This I disagree with as the good person is doing God's will,(hypothetically) that is why it is not for me to judge as there are far too many things to be considered, all I meant is it would be a good starting point in doing what Jesus wants. But don't worry I am pretty sure I will be accused of something else despite my efforts to correct my poor explanations.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-27-2003]

Just don't expect me to act the bad guy .lol.
'cause I am not really, I mean for e.g I am probably the first in hell. I certainly dont think good people go to hell though, why? because I think the good guys are the good guys .lol