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Author
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Topic: Scotus rules 2nd amendment is an individual right
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 26 of 176 (475435)
07-15-2008 8:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Straggler
07-15-2008 6:51 PM
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Re: Anti Everything
Straggler writes: I dont think Tolerance is the answer If everyone takes that view then we are all doomed. I find this information Here.
Gun control kills:
In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953 approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911 Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1928 Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill and other who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1964 Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1970 Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1956, Cambodia, established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated These kind of things is the reason they can my weapon from take it from my cold dead fingers. Ever wonder why Hittler didn't invade Switzerland. Do you think it might have been because they had guns? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Straggler, posted 07-15-2008 6:51 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 43 of 176 (475490)
07-16-2008 10:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 38 by Straggler
07-16-2008 9:00 AM
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Re: Anti Everything
Straggler writes: Are you seriously suggesting that countries with restrictions on weapons are more dangerous.....? Yes. Jamaica tops the list. If I am not mistaken England disarmed the public for their own protection. That experiment proves gun ownership has nothing to do with violent crime's.
Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy Confirms that Reducing Gun Ownership by Law-Abiding Citizens Does Nothing to Reduce Violence Worldwide There is a nice article Here. You might be interested in this little tidbit.
Citing England, for instance, they reveal that "when it had no firearms restrictions [in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries], England had little violent crime." By the late 1990s, however, "England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban on all handguns and many types of long guns." As a result, "by the year 2000, violent crime had so increased that England and Wales had Europe's highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the United States." Straggler writes: Aren't the intenational murder and gun crime statistics firmly against you regards this? Depends on whose report's you go by.
Straggler writes: Should we all just have the right to own a personal thermonuclear device? What does thermonuclear device's have to do with owning a handgun, a shotgun or a rifle? You need to quit putting lemon in your tea. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by Straggler, posted 07-16-2008 9:00 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 44 of 176 (475493)
07-16-2008 11:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Rrhain
07-15-2008 11:46 PM
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Re-Control
Rrhain writes: You can't think of a more significant reason why the political dissidents were rounded up and killed other than gun control? Are you seriously claiming that the exterminations wouldn't have happened otherwise? Them not having guns sure made it a lot easier for the government. It might have happened but the price would have been a lot higher for the government. The people would have died fighting instead of in gas chambers and before firing squad's, etc. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Rrhain, posted 07-15-2008 11:46 PM | | Rrhain has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 103 by Rrhain, posted 07-19-2008 6:33 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 68 of 176 (475602)
07-16-2008 10:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 49 by Straggler
07-16-2008 5:42 PM
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Re: Anti Everything
Straggler writes: This would seem to prove that ineffectual gun laws gives rise to the worst of both worlds!!!! I have been to Jamaica and, legal or otherwise, everybody has guns. No everybody in Jamaica don't have guns just the police and the crooks. Well that does cover most everybody. But there are a lot of law abiding people in Jam that do not own guns. There are a lot of people there that can't afford a gun. A 357 S&W costs around 165,000 Jamaican dollars, the last I heard. I have many friends from Jamaica as I lived in Grand Cayman for 15 years.
Straggler writes: Well if people don't have guns they cannot shoot each other is the very obvious aim here. I agree they can not shoot each other without guns. Does that stop them from killing each other, afraid not. In Jamaica over 130 per 100,000 killings occur. 66% of those are from gun shot wounds. 34% are from other weapons. 29% are from disputes of which half are committed with a knife. You can find this information Here which is 6 years old.
Straggler writes: Well define "violent crime". According to Wikipedia every country has a different definition for violent crime.
Straggler writes: Which stats show the US as having a lower rate of gun deaths than the UK? I don't think I said the UK had more gun homicides that the US. I did quote the Harvard people as saying the UK had a higher violent crime rate than the US. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 49 by Straggler, posted 07-16-2008 5:42 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 80 of 176 (475737)
07-17-2008 9:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 79 by Straggler
07-17-2008 8:57 PM
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Re: Anti Everything
Straggler writes: So banning both guns and "other weapons" might be a valid form of ensuring less needless loss of life. No? But they do have the most stringent gun laws of anybody.
Firearms Act and the Gun Court Act of 1974. The Acts provided for gun confiscation, house-to-house searches, incommunicado detention, secret trials, warrantless searches and seizures, and mandatory lifetime prison sentences for the possession of even a single bullet. The main designer of the Gun Court Act was the president of the World Federation for Mental Health, Dr. Michael Beaubrun. He insisted that the Gun Court was a scientifically designed approach to behavioral change.
Found Here.
Straggler writes: Go figure........... Hasn't the UK broadened the police to have ARU patroling the streets especially in what is termed Hot Zones? As I understand it there is enough weapons in the unit to start a small war. BTW half of the gunshot dead in America are self inflicted. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by Straggler, posted 07-17-2008 8:57 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 82 of 176 (475804)
07-18-2008 12:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Straggler
07-18-2008 8:17 AM
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Re: Anti Everything
Straggler writes: I do not know what ARU was so I typed "London ARU" into google and got a load of links to architecture and art websites. Obviously not a common term here. Try This Straggler writes: Together with poverty, gross social inequality and a fair amount of the population living in near third world conditions. As is inevitable in such circumstane there is a high degree of police corruption. If law enforcement and organised crime are all but indistinguishable no amount of stringent lawmaking and political posturing will have any effect on anything. Do you have any examples other than Jamiaca? Other countries that have tight gun controls and high murder rates? Perhaps ones where poverty and corruption are not such a huge factor? A western 1st world democracy would surely be a better example with which to compare America? Straggler there are about 25 other countries with worse murder rates than the US. Depending on whose charts you choose to believe. Many have tight gun controls. Jamaica just happens to be #1. They were under British rule for many years and then declared their independence. Jamaica, at one time was the most prosperous nation in the Caribbean. Until the corrupt police and the crooks took over. Since they are the only one's with gun's they do as they please and the ordinary person just tries to stay out of the line of fire. They have no way of defending themselves other than a machete. That not too good against an AK- 47 Assault Rifle. I truly hope that your government never becomes corrupt. We know the crooks are getting more plentiful in UK. What would you do if it got to the point the police was just as corrupt as the crooks and you could not even tell them apart except for the uniform. What recourse would you have. In America it will never come to the point we do not have recourse that is what the 2nd amendment is all about. It is to make sure what has happened in Jamaica can never happen here. I lived in Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands for a total of 15 years. It has a British Governor. One of which was a good friend. No gun's are ammunition are allowed on the island except at the police sponsored shoot club. All weapons that individuals own are kept by the police. The last year I was there they had a shoot out in the emergency room at the hospital. Between a man who had gone there to kill his wife, and the police. I have lived without gun's in my possession. But with our diversity of people and crooks in America there is no way I will give up my weapons. If for a while because they are available more die, it just has to be, because that is better than millions dying because we decided to give up our gun's. As the old saying in the South goes "Hell will freeze over first". And if Hell does not exist that would make it just that much harder to freeze over. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Straggler, posted 07-18-2008 8:17 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 89 of 176 (475819)
07-18-2008 2:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 84 by cavediver
07-18-2008 12:35 PM
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Re: Anti Everything
cavediver writes: I guess our government has been evolving for well over half a millenium longer than yours - if you manage to get to our stage, you'll probably feel sufficiently comfortable to let go of those guns At the present we have over 20 million people in the US illegally. We have a bunch of bleeding hearts that won't send them home. If you think I am giving up my weapons you got another think coming. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 84 by cavediver, posted 07-18-2008 12:35 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re:What I Don't Know
Dr Adequate writes: Overall, the BCS puts the fall in crime at 6% during 2007, with violent crime also down 6%, and significant falls in car crime and vandalism. If you don't mind I will wait until the yearly results are in. The report you refer to sounds like a politician running for office. The last six months of 06 and the first six months of 07 it seems Vandalism was up 10%. Violent crime up 5% Drug offences up 9% and all BCS crime up 3%.
Levels of crime have remained stable in England and Wales over the last 12 months, Home Office figures show.
Here But if the UK has evolved so much, why did they start the Armed Response Units in 1992? Better yet why do they still have them? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Re:What I Don't Know
Dr Adequate writes: We've had specialized firearms officers for ages, I don't know where you're getting this "1992" stuff from, apart from your fertile imagination. I am truly sorry I misinformed you as my 69 year old memory is failing me these days. So I missed it by a year can you forgive me? You will find the information Here The Metropolitan Police Service first introduced 'Armed Response Vehicles' to the streets of London in 1991. These vehicles are crewed by uniformed officers who have been selected and trained to stabilise and control armed incidents, stop and search suspects, their vehicles and to search premises for armed suspects. Dr Adequate writes: The British Crime Survey, which is based on a survey of 40,000 people's experience of crime, confirms this, with the risk of being a crime victim falling to 23% - the lowest since the survey began in 1981. That does kinda suggest a downward trend, does it not?
It does suggest that they believe what the media is telling them. I notice you did not refute the crime stats I presented. Here God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 97 of 176 (475868)
07-19-2008 10:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 94 by cavediver
07-19-2008 3:36 AM
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Re: Anti Everything
cavediver writes: When you raise the gun at someone, do you see Jesus standing there beside you, raising his as well? The only time I ever pointed a gun at a person the gun belonged to that person. Which he had pointed at me. I was in special services in the Army. I hope I never have to raise a gun at a human being. But rest assured if I do I have no problems with using it. If my life or the life of one of mine is in danger. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by cavediver, posted 07-19-2008 3:36 AM | | cavediver has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by Straggler, posted 07-19-2008 10:24 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Re:What I Don't Know
Dr Adequate writes: That is talking about the new vehicles they brought in. We have had firearms units for much, much longer. It said introduced to the streets. That means they had not been on the streets before that time.
Dr Adequate writes: The survey is produced by asking people whether they have been crime victims. Did the people who answered "no" do so because "the media" told them to? Apparently you have never done a survey. You can get any answer you want by the way you ask the question.
Dr. Adequate writes: And I notice that the statistics you presented do not confirm your claim that "the crooks are getting more plentiful in UK". According to the stats for 06-07 crime was up 3% over 05-06. With the link cavediver provided the figures for 07-08 shows a 8% decrease over 06-07. That is great only problem is drug crimes were up 17% that does not look good for the future. But I hope the police are able to control the drug crime. That is one of our biggest problems people steal, rob, and kill to be able to get drugs. Then we have our drug gangs that war with each other. Then we have the police trying to control the drugs and drug dealers. I not giving up my weapons. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re-Weapons
Catholic Scientist writes: The NRA, while being a tax law, defines the categories on what is and is not a "firearm". You did mean the NFA National Firearms Act did you not. Rather than the NRA National Rifle Association. Nice rant. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Gun laws
Dr Adequate writes: Of course, as has been pointed out, America is not my country, but these are my thoughts. Let me add something for you to think about. There are over 20 million people in the US that has served in the military that have weapons, of which I am one. These men are highly trained. Some snipers, some riflemen, some armored infantry and all branches of service. Our country is in much better shape if we were attacked with weapons in those hands. Just food for thought. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Gun laws
Dr Adequate writes: But it's not going to happen, is it? 'Cos it's actually your regular armed services that keep you safe. Actually a lot of those people who have been in Iraq over the last 2 or 3 years were exservice men called up to active duty. But it is not going to happen because that 20 million is not going to give their weapons up.
Dr Adequate writes: Here's a thought: why not break out the guns when the invasion actually happens, and distribute them to ex-servicemen? That would probably take a couple of months according to how our government worked during huricane katrina. You see the UK is only about 3% of the land mass of the continental US. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Racism
Granny Magda writes: Then why don't you just come out and say what you mean? Is it because you suspect that you are going to be accused of racism? If you have the courage to stand by your convictions, let's have out with it. HERE Technologies | The world's #1 location platform is the information you requested. Americans can not talk about this war that has been going on for the last 40+ years.
The Race War of Black Against White By Paul Sheehan Sydney Morning Herald, May 20, 1995 "The longest war America has ever fought is the Dirty War, and it is not over. It has lasted 30 years so far and claimed more than 25 million victims. It has cost almost as many lives as the Vietnam War. It determined the result of last year's congressional election.
Over time, the cumulative effect has been staggering. Justice Department and FBI statistics indicate that between 1964 and 1994 more than 25 million violent inter-racial crimes were committed, overwhelmingly involving black offenders and white victims, and more than 45,000 people were killed in inter-racial murders. By comparison, 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam, and 34,000 were killed in the Korean War. Yes it is a war and expected to get worse. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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