Best evidence for Creation

No, I have direct evidence that freedom is real, in the creationist sense, in my own experience. There's also some experimental scientific evidence that establishes it viz the hyperion of Mercury, and a harmonic oscillator or something.

Why does it mean a creator requires a creator?bluegenes you keep asking, who created God?The definition of God is I AM. That is everything that exists.Now I have a question I have been trying to get an answer too for well over a year now. Maybe you can supply one for me.Who/What created/formed the speck/smear/point or whatever you want to call it that expanded into our present universe?I have answers "it just is", "there was no before", "it did not come from nothing", "We don't know", and even a question "Why can't it just be?"That is the best answers Science can put forth for the existence of our universe.Therefore the scientific answers for the existence of the universe is the best evidence for a Creator.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

So whenever science has yet to understand something, this is evidence for a creator?So when we did not understand what kept a positively charged nucleus together, this was evidence for a creator? When we did not understand how the Sun and the Earth could come to be, this was evidence for a creator? When we did not understand what made thunder and lightning, this was evidence for a creator? When we did not understand in any way how life could possibly come into existence from non-life, that was evidence for a creator?Hmmm, the track receord isn't that good, is it?Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

Hi, ICANT. No, that's his name, not his definition. Does this mean that you and I are literally part of God? I disagree with you.Still, if God is everything that exists, that means He exists, and existence has been asserted by Lucy to be evidence of having been created. Therefore, you are still stuck with:God exists
"exists" = "created"
thus, God was created. The Great Green Arkleseizure sneezed it into existence when the Flying Spaghetti Monster (drunk as usual, and highly susceptible to the prank suggestions from the Invisible Pink Unicorn on His shoulder) doused His Noodly Self with pepper before the Pre-Cosmic Cocktail Party last Wednesday night.Why do you keep assuming that somebody or something has to have created or formed it? It's exactly the same as what Jamison and LucyTheApe have already said (that the creation is self-evident), except that you've now turned it into a question that you expect Bluegenes to answer. If you wanted to be honest, you'd also say it's the best you can put forth, too. But, instead, you chose to just accept one of the many unproven and untested explanations because you felt good about it. And, instead of answering what evidence you think best supports your idea, you turn it around and demand what evidence supports your opponent's idea.Edited by Bluejay, : dBcodes problem

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Darwin loves you.

In careful English: The statement "existence requires a creator" means that a creator cannot exist without a creator, because his existence would require a creator. No, I do not. What I do is, when any of your fellow theists come out with statements like "existence requires a creator" is point out that their statements have inbuilt contradictions.Of course existence cannot require a creator, otherwise the creator couldn't exist to create, so nothing could exist.If you now understand this, please help me in pointing out to the rest of the God squad how nonsensical that kind of statement is.In fact, the opposite must be true. Existence does not require a creator (whether there is one or not). There are many definitions of the word God. If your preferred one is "everything" that's fine, but there's already a word for that, which is "everything". I don't know, and so far as I know, no-one knows. "Everything" created the universe, you mean? Or has your God changed character from being "everything" to being a being who created this universe in the space of a few short sentences? That's just a version of "God of the Gaps", the God who is traditionally stuck in the gaps of human knowledge, and counts more as a joke these days, certainly not evidence.Personally, I think that the thing we need to learn to do when we don't know something is to do the honest thing, and to say we don't know. One thing's for sure, though. If we start to think of things that could have created the universe, we would be able to come up with a virtually infinite number of ideas. The chances of any individual one of them being true would therefore be infinitesimally small.So think of the ICANT god of the gaps in that context. "Gaps in knowledge" bless you too.

What I was thinking is that in relation to common sense, you have to base common sense on what you know, or what is known.For example, I haven't accidently cut off a finger, but common sense tells me that if I did accidently cut off my finger there would be lots of blood and it would be painful, because I have had cuts before that have bled and they have been sore.But as far as creation goes, does common sense really tell us that everything HAS to have been created?How do we know that we are not applying common sense to a concept that our common sense has no knowledge of on which to base our common sense driven conclusion?

I did not say anything about science not knowing how something worked was evidence for a creator.I did say not knowing where anything and everything came from is the best evidence for a creator.Unless it just poofed out of thin air. Ops there was no air there was no nothing, not anything at all.It really sounds like something had to be created by some means and whatever that means was that would be the creator.I will quote Hawking where he said Here

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All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. Yet it is now taken for granted.

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If it had a beginning it had to be created.That is the best evidence for a creator.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

1) This is an assertion. Please demonstrate its validity.2) And if it doesn't have a 'beginning'?

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If it had a beginning it had to be created.

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That is the best evidence for a creator.

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Not necessarily, is a possibility that there is a multiverse. If so than our universe may have existed in an alternate state before expansion. That would mean that in regards to this universe it did not require a creator. Though I will be honest and admit that this leads to a infinite regression of who/what than created this multiverse? For that I have no answer, but I can honestly say that neither do you. For if it was God who created the multi/universe than who created that God and so on and so on.

And I have also seen it claimed that that which had no beginning was the creator.So we have evidence for a creator from:

I just love creation "science!"

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

I do not assume it had to be created or formed.Science says the universe did not always exist. It had a beginning 13.7 billion years ago. Hawking said 15 billion years.If it did not exist it had to be created.If one of your colorful creatures created it then he/she/it would be the creator. bluegenes gave the correct answer as I expected him to do.

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I don't know, and so far as I know, no-one knows.

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I am saying the lack of scientific evidence for the existence of the universe is the best evidence of a creator.The universe had to come from somewhere, or something.Unless you got a better idea.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You right it is an assertion. So let me see if I can shed a little light on the subject.I have a truck and a van sitting in my driveway. Both of those vehicles had a beginning. They did not self create. They did not come into existence by an explosion in a junk yard.They were manufactured in a plant by people and robots.I live in a house that was created by human beings taking materials and assembling them into a house.I get from those things that something that did not exist at one time that they had to be created.Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. That is a whole different story that begins to get to where I believe.You see I believe the Universe has always been here just not in the form that we see it today.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

But you won't let us poor materialists do the same? There may have been "something different" pre-Big Bang, as mentioned under "multiverse" upthread. No, we don't know what it looked like. So? You don't know what your universe looked like in its "prior form."And do you have any of the evidence for creation Brian asked for in the OP?

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

So you have observed a property of a few elements of a potentially infinite set, and then you try to claim that therefore the set itself has this property? Not so much wrong as making no sense whatsoever...

You did read what I said did you not.I said: "IF it had a beginning it had to be created."I do not believe it had a beginning I believe it was formed from things that had always existed.As far as multiverses, why would anybody want to limit God as to what He can do.He could have billions on universes with billions of earths with people on all of them. Or He could have one that would be His choice.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."