The consciouness paradox

Aren't you basically asking how can consciousness spring from natural structures?Being a fanboi of wikipedia, I'd suggest you look at the wiki page on consciousness and find out exaclty where your "problem" with consciousness emerging takes place, and then expand on that and bring your new-found problems to the table.To me it seems that, in general (like your OP is expressed), there really isn't a "paradox".Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

Why put the onus on me to prove to you that its not? You should prove to me that it is (a simple analogy doesn't cut it). There's enough science on the emergence of consciousness (did you look at the wiki page I linked you too?), that I don't know where to begin. Look into it and educate yourself on the current science, and then come back with specific problems that you have found.Basically, you're arguing from incredulity. You can't simply hand-wave away artificial intelligence like that... If it was truely artificial consciousness then it would not be a puppet on strings, by definition. But this isn't really the topic. Do you think that humans are the only species that are self aware? The emergence of consciousness wasn't "sudden", like you say. Again, you're arguing from incredulity and expecting others to prove to you that it could happen. Again, I'd suggest you'd read the the wiki page on A.I. and come back with the specific problems you see.This general approach of you saying that you don't think it could happen so others should explain it to you isn't the best way, you should do your own homework on the subject and then come back with specific questions.

Reading the current science behind the emergnece of consciousness and the development of artificial intelligence and then writing a post about specific problems you have found rather than making a general argument from incredulity and having others prove it to you.

and when that machine becomes intelligent, it will be AI. Yes, and intelligence.

Humans are not the only species that have intelligence.

Well, we are alone in our sapience.There's something special about us. Its almost more impressive that only one has consciousness sapience. I think sapience is a better word choice than consciousness because one could argue that humans are not the only consciouss species.

The result is what makes us special. We're orders of magnitude more intelligent than any other species.The lottery winner is special because the are filthy rich, not because they got lucky. They painted a colored dot on a gorilla's forehead (unbeknownst to him) and showed him a mirror. He looked in the mirror and touched the dot on his forehead. That shows that he was aware of himself.ABE:Mirror test - WikipediaEdited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE:

There's nothing special about it, in and of itself.But us humans are special because we are soooo intelligent we're off the chart. Not being on the chart is being special. Fuck the environment for the purpose of this discussion.Yes we are another species, but we are not just another species.That we have evolved to be so much smarter that the other species don't even compare to us means we are something more than just another one.I'm not talking about some metaphysical sense of specialness.If everyone else has $1 and you have $1000, then you are special even tho its just other dollars. They are stil jus dollars but that you have so much more makes you special.And sure its self-centered, but do you here any of the other species complaining about it

But the other species aren't even capable of making a chart. That right there shows how un-special they are. To be analogous, we'd have to have a gap in the flying ability that resembles the gap in intelligence. So yeah, if some bird could fly to outer space, then they'd be special too. But there is no gap. And there's not really a gap in any ability except intellience. And then its the biggest gap we've seen. It seems like something special to me. Our level of intelligence is unique. I can certainly put my religious hat on and call it a "gift", but it doesn't really seem necessary.And I do see a hierarchy of evolved traits. There are some very primative traits (sexual reproduction) and their are highly evolved traits (echo-location). That all mammals sexually reproduce and only a couple have echolocation suggests a hierarchy. Sapience could easily be placed at the top of this hierarchy. I mean, we are the ones who are naming the hierarchy in the first place. Its not like we can ask the dolphins if they agree.

So it seems, but I'm not totally convinced.Jesus could have used his magic powers to guide our evolution Or the Viracocha could have genetically manipulated gorillas with their own genetics. I was saying that its not the intelligence, itself, that was special but that our amount of intelligence is special. But not necessarily in some metaphysical sense, in the sense that a bird that could fly to outer space would also be special. Its in the sense of "wow, that is extra-ordinary"Now, if a bird could fly to outer space, it might make me think that there was something more to it than "nothing short of luck", like in the metaphysical or extraterestrial sense. That we are soooo intelligent could also suggest that there was something more than luck involved. But if the aliens did specially create us, your claims wouldn't be totally correct. They wouldn't be false, but you'd be wrong in failing to recognize their involvement.Or if Jesus did it, or whatever. Think of the phylogenic tree: The traits that are common to many species, those at the trunk of the tree, are at a lower hierarchy than the traits that are uncommon, those at the tips of the branches. That's not true. Some species are better adapted than others. So it seems, but I'm not totally convinced.Jesus could have used his magic powers to guide our evolution Or the Viracocha could have genetically manipulated gorillas with their own genetics.Consciousness's uniqueness could be suggesting that it is "more special".

That it was nothing short of luck? How are you going to prove a negative? If you can agree that humans' intelligence is extra-ordinary, then why can we not use that to suggest that it might, just might, be a result of something outside the Theory of Evolution?You're convinced that it was nothing short of luck. How can you be so sure? The premise is that a natural process could describe the occurance. If spacemen genetically engineered humans, that would still be a "natural" process, no? If nothing else, it'd still be a chronological hierarchy You don't have to control the traits to merit a hierarchy. Hell, we could even put these into a hierarchy: No, even outside our own POV. And its not about being more advantageous. Its about the trait being "off the chart" in terms of how good we are at it. Some fish swim better than others. If one fish swims 100x faster than all the other fish combined, that might lead us to believe there is something special about that fish. It might even be the result of something outside the ToE.I'm not trying to convince you that it definately is, just that it is a possibility. Because, you seem sure that nothing outside the ToE has affected the evolution of any species on this planet.I think the level of intelligence that humans possess could be suggesting that there is something else.

Are you saying that it's not subject to the forces of nature except through a physical body because it doesn't exist outside the physical body? Or are you trying to make some metaphysical soul-type point about awareness being something that does exist outside the physical body but it is only subject to the forces of nature while within it?

Its almost like the spirits need a way to interact in order for there to be a proving grounds for the afterlife and that the physical plane is it. Our consciousness seems to be the doorway between the spiritual and physical planes through which the spirits pass through to interact./yawn