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Author Topic:   Why is the Intelligent Designer such an idiot?
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 11 of 50 (478132)
08-12-2008 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
08-12-2008 8:29 AM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
I'm sorry, did you seriously just title this post "unappreciative blasphemy?"
Cavediver, you're the ultimate unappreciative blasphemer who possesses all of the abilities, functions and bodily facilities to do all that the supreme designer, majesty of the universe has equipped you with.
Too bad the "master designer" didn't see fit to equip me with a decent set of eyes, like eagle eyes or octopus eyes. Hell, I'd even settle for normal 20/20 human vision. Without corrective lenses, I literally can't see past my own nose. Apparently I was "specially Created" with an inbuilt flaw.
Note that octopi don't have this problem. Their more flexible lens structure means they can adjust their lens by themselves, without glasses. That'd be a really neat design feature. Too bad the "designer" left it out of his supposed crowning achievement.
It'd also be nice to have a redundant heart. Sure, it increases necessary caloric intake, but hear attacks wouldn't be such a big deal any more with a little redundancy.
How about not using the same tube for eating and breathing? I gotta say, any engineer who designed that today, leaving the obvious flaw of being able to choke simply by eating, would be fired.
And what the hell is up with this appendix thing? Why do I need to have a vestigial organ that serves no purpose other than to acquire a life-threatening infection? Why'd this all-knowing designer include that?
So what do you do with the degree of mentality the wonderfully brain you have is blaspheme and complain that the designer has made you thus.
Not our fault there's a lot to complain about. Seriously, while certain parts of the human body are truly spectacular, even those bits contain engineering flaws that no intelligent designer would ever implement. Unless he was drunk, or playing a practical joke on his creations.
I mean, if I were to create a sentient robot, the last thing I'm going to do is give it optical sensors that are warped so that it needs to wear additional lenses to see straight, or leave a bunch of circuit boards in the housing that don't perform any function but have a tendency to short out and cause a fire, or use the same jack for AC input as for lubricant intake.
Those sorts of things would be stupid when normal lenses exist and simple intelligent design technique eliminates the other flaws.
Perhaps if you suddenly lost all your fingernails or your fingers, you'd begin to appreciate the way you are designed.
I doubt it - they don't grow back. Maybe if I were a reptile and could grow them back, I'd appreciate an intelligent design choice.
Then perhaps if after loosing your fingers you lost your elbows or the cartilage in your elbows you'd begin to appreciate the way you are designed.
I doubt it. Again, their poor design means they won't grow back, and in fact most people experience wearing-out of joints in the form of arthritis or various problems with the cartilage. Maybe if those inherent design flaws weren't present, I'd be more appreciative.
Perhaps if you suddenly became colorblind, blurry visioned, or blind you'd begin to appreciate the way you are designed.
Well, I am "blurry-visioned." Those of us with an IQ above freezing call it "nearsightedness" or "myopic vision," but that's okay, Buz. We understand that an idiot would certainly find the inherent design flaws of the human eye, with its lack of focusing ability, the ease with which the retina can be detached, and the many birth defects that can cause blindness or imperfect vision to be "miraculously intelligent."
Perhaps if you suddenly lost the ability to produce tears or lost your eye lashes and then the eyelids, you'd learn to appreciate the way you are designed.
Perhaps if the designer had included something like the nictitating membrane of reptiles so that we wouldn't need to be concerned with getting foreign substances in our eyes or lack of lubrication. As it is, those aren't very intelligent designs either.
Perhaps if you suddenly lost all of your toes, then the legs which allow you to crawl, walk, run, jump, climb, etc you'd begin to appreciate the way you are designed.
Not really. But I'd definitely appreciate the addition of wings and the musculature to use them.
Perhaps if you suddenly lost the ability of recall in your brain, you'd learn to appreciate the way you are designed.
Such a shame the intelligent designer gave us such imperfect memories, isn't it? I mean, the computer I'm using right now has a basically perfect memory. If I worked off of a flash drive, I wouldn't even have to worry about moving parts failure. Why couldn't the intelligent designer give us memories like that? I wouldn't have needed to spend so many hours studying in school! Surely the "intelligent designer" could come up with a better method than our forgetful brains!
Perhaps if your body suddenly lost the ability to coagulate blood, you'd begin to appreciate the way you are designed.
These are just a few of the masterfully designed properties of body and mind which I praise, honor, glorify and thank Jehovah, creator, for. Praise God from whom all blessings flow!
I'll say it very plainly, Buz: if the human body was specifically designed, the designer was on crack. An idiot. A fool. A complete and total moron. There is no "glory" in giving the so-called pinnacle of your creation inherant flaws that most of the "lesser" creatures you made don't themselves posses. Anyone who thinks my eyes, the ones that can't even recognize my own mother at four paces, are "intelligently designed" when birds of prey can see clearly for miles and octopi can self-correct for the sort of lens flaws that plague me is a moron. Anyone who thinks using the same tube for breathing and eating is an example of "masterful" design is an idiot.
Your Jehova is an incompetent boob if we are the result of his direct and special creation.
The only thing impressive about the human body in terms of design is that it actually works at all. The only miracle is that we haven't all developed cancer, don't all have vision problems or appendicitis, and don't all have birth defects resulting from the inherantly flawed DNA replication cycle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 08-12-2008 8:29 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Coyote, posted 08-12-2008 11:51 AM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 21 by Blue Jay, posted 08-12-2008 12:25 PM Rahvin has replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 26 of 50 (478171)
08-12-2008 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Blue Jay
08-12-2008 12:25 PM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
Hi, Rahvin.
quote:
Rahvin writes:
I'll say it very plainly, Buz: if the human body was specifically designed, the designer was on crack. An idiot. A fool. A complete and total moron.
I have to say that I really don't like this line of argument at all.
First off, all the human designers, engineers and scientists that have ever lived, put together, couldn't have created something like a human body with the tools we have available, so we at least know that, if there's a Designer, it's superior to the best we can muster on our own. I’ll let you decide on your own whether that means anything in particular, because I’m not sure what I think yet.
Only partially true. We have not as yet designed a superior immune system to that of the human body...but most of our creations don't need to fight disease. We have not been able as yet to create a sentient being, but that's not the part in question. The useless and even outright harmful vestigial organs like the appendix or wisdom teeth, the parts prone to malfunction or deformity like the eyes, and the silly design where even a little forethought would have resulted in a more survivable organism like the breathing/eating tube, all are examples that we can and have improved on nature. A modern digital camera off the shelf at Best Buy is superior to the human eye.
Second, even though I know it’s basically an untestable cop-out, I have to agree with Iano (whom I quoted above) that we just don’t know the mind of the Designer (assuming there is one), so it’s hard to place a judgment call on the Designer’s skills or reasoning. I just don’t think we can honestly, objectively say that the lack of physical perfection correlates with divineincompetence: there’s still too much we don’t know.
That is a cop-out, so I'm not even sure why you're mentioning it. The "god has a plan" or "you cant understand the motivations of the divine" arguments are idiotic and always have been. It falls into the "we don't know everything, so we can't know anything" category. The data we do have suggests that an intelligent designer would not design anything like the human body. There are just too many obviously inefficient, harmful, or simply risky design features in the human body to say that it in any way coincides with an "intelligent" design.
That said, all of my arguments apply only to Creationist "made from mud" scenarios, not any scenario in which a deity simply allowed humanity to evolve through natural processes. Our own experimentation with evolutionary design has shown that, left to its own devices, the evolutionary process can come up with some outlandish results that still work very well, even if they are inefficient. It is entirely possible that a deity orchestrated the processes of nature with perfect precognition to result in the eventual evolution of humanity. But those like Buz who believe that human beings were specially Created, not evolved, must also believe that human beings were designed exactly as they are. We have many examples of features in other parts of the animal kingdom that work better than their analogues in humans, and so there is no conceivable reason for a designer to not give humanity eyes that function like an octopus, or remove that appendix that becomes so risky when left in.
Now, if you’re talking about half-witted jackass idiots who insist that God loves us infinitely, has the ability to do absolutely anything that could ever be conceived, and whose only reason for creating us is so that we can live forever in a happy place where we’ll just be singing His praises non-stop for all eternity, then maybe I’ll retract my second point.
Well, yes, those would be some of those I'm talking about.
But, if you’re willing to consider a God that follows a set system of rules and obligations, whose purpose is the continual growth and progress of beings below Him, then my second point stands: a God like that could have myriad reasons why physical imperfection is contrary to His plan.
I'm sure you can conceive of a "reason" to have a third thumb jutting from the back of your head if you allow that its purpose is to encourage "growth through hardship." But that only works when assuming the existence of an incomprehensible deity - it is not in any way evidence of design. From all objective analysis, that third thumb would be an idiotic addition from an engineering standpoint, which means that the evidence we do have points to any such designer being a moron.
You can't use "any explanation I can pull out of my imagination" to bypass the fact that many of the features of the human body simply don't make sense from a design standpoint. Your approach is one of apologetics, where you begin with the conclusion (humanity was designed) and look for supporting evidence while either ignoring contradictory evidence or trying to "interpret" it in such a way that supports your premade conclusion. That's not a valid method of investigation.
To me, the Evangelical/Protestant views are nonsense, not because it relies on an intelligent designer to have created something that seems unintelligently designed, but because they insist that God designed a plan whereby a person must pass through this painful maze of physical life in order to get to a happy place because somebody else broke one of His rules long time ago, while also insisting that He is fully capable of just putting us in the happy place from the start. Not only is that unfair, but it seems completely pointless.
That's a theological argument, and I'm not going to address it very far. All I'll mention is that you just claimed above that the deity's motives may be completely incomprehensible to "mere humans," and this represents an inconsistency in your argument. Frankly, though, I could care less about theological arguments - all I care about is the objective evidence we have of the human body itself, and that evidence is not suggestive of an intelligent designer.
Assuming that there is a God, the fact that adversity is an integral part of this life is a sure indication to me that any afterlife is not going to be all happy and carefree: if it were, why would God be wasting His time teaching us things like patience, endurance and humility? Why not just give us a flawless body and let us live somewhere happy, beautiful and carefree now? If His love for us is real, why would He be hammering us so hard in this life if the hammering isn’t going to do any for us in the next life?
To me, any afterlife that there may be will still be life as we know it: work to do and problems to solve (albeit, different work and different problems). That’s why God didn’t iron out all the flaws for us here: because we need to learn how to deal with them to prepare us for the life to come.
Sorry for the sermon. Feel free to ignore it if you’d like: it may not have contributed much to the topic, anyway.
Really, it all boils down to apologetics. None of this involves following evidence to conclusions, but rather using predetermined conclusions to shape our interpretation of evidence. I could just as easily make up such "explanations" by assuming that a malevolent unicorn created the world as an exercise in torturing humanity like a child with ants, and that those parts of us that do work or give us pleasure were intended only to make our misery all the greater when our flawed bodies fail us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Blue Jay, posted 08-12-2008 12:25 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Blue Jay, posted 08-12-2008 7:55 PM Rahvin has not replied

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