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Author Topic:   IS There only one god?
THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 20 (47811)
07-29-2003 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peter
07-28-2003 6:59 AM


quote:
The bible has this::
'Thou shalt have none other gods before me.'
Doesn't that just mean 'I am the Boss God' rather than
'I am the only God'?
This is the second commandment given to Israelites. It forbids them to accept any being, entity or object as a deity and call it a god. It also forbids Israelites to accept any being, entity or object as a mediator between God and man ("Thou shalt have none other gods before me" and yes "before me" is the correct translation).
Most Jewish Rabbinical literature extends this prohibition to Jews and non-Jews alike. Others maintain that a non-Jew may accept another being as a deity or mediator, as long as he does not actually worship it as an idol, and also believes in God. They base it on the verse "Lest ... you be drawn astray and worship them, the ones God your Lord has allotted to all the gentiles ..." (Deuteronomy 4:19)According to the second opinion, Christianity may be a permissible religion for non-Jews, and it may be in fulfillment of God's ultimate purpose.*
* Cf. Yad, Melakhim 11:4 (only in Rome, 1475, and Amsterdam,1703, editions); quoted in Ramban , Torath HaShem Temimah (in Kithvey Ramban, Jerusalem, 1963) p.144; Teshuvot Rambam 58; Kuzari 4:23; Teshuvot Rivash 119; Akedat Yitzchak 88.
This is based on writing of Aryeh Kaplan.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peter, posted 07-28-2003 6:59 AM Peter has seen this message but not replied

  
THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 20 (47812)
07-29-2003 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jake22
07-28-2003 3:34 PM


quote:
  1. a "god" is something elevated to a position to be worshipped.
  2. but Baal is a "god" of the OT. He is considered a deity

1. That is called idolotry. God is always worshipped and he is the only one to be worshipped at all times. (according to Judaism of corse)
2. Baal simply means "Master" in hebrew and has nothing to do with God.

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 14 by doctrbill, posted 07-29-2003 2:26 AM THEONE has replied

  
THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 20 (47819)
07-29-2003 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by doctrbill
07-29-2003 2:26 AM


The god of Caanan was Baali Looks like hebrew word Baal but not quite the same.
quote:
Hosea 2:16 :: King James Version (KJV)
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
As far as different translation of word Baal. You are right, just like any hebrew word it has multiple meanings. Most common use of which is Master. Regardless of KJV translation methods.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by doctrbill, posted 07-29-2003 2:26 AM doctrbill has replied

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THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 20 (48087)
07-30-2003 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by doctrbill
07-29-2003 2:04 PM


Ishi and Baali can both mean "my husband", but with different connotations. Ishi, literally, "my man", implies a relationship based on love; but Balli, literally, "my master", can also refer to a relationship based on fear of a superior.
Reference, Stone Edition Tanach, Artscroll Series, Mesorah Publication; Commentaries on bible by Rashi (1040-1105).
Another thing... if you look at Original Hebrew Scrolls, all of this is actually in Hosea 2:18 not in 2:16. But when you have your own way of translation (in this case KJV) alot can get changed or twisted...

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 Message 16 by doctrbill, posted 07-29-2003 2:04 PM doctrbill has replied

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THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 20 (48143)
07-31-2003 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by doctrbill
07-30-2003 10:28 PM


Here's just one example of a place where rendering baal as Master might not work too well: "... the woman ... she is a man's wife [baal]" Genesis 20:3. On second thought, it would be kinda cute to give it Master in this case.
The phrase you are referencing here is "Be-oo-lat Ba-al". KJV translates it as man's wife. I'm not saying it's wrong, but if that's the only translation you know, let me return the favor and expand your limits just a bit . The word for man is "ish" as we previously established. Be-oo-lat can also mean that, however the word "oo-lat" also means "marriage" prefix "Be" means "in" or "with". Just like in Be-resheat - "In the begging..."(Genesis 1:1). So "Be-oo-lat Ba-al" can mean, in marrige (or married) to a Master (or Great Man). And we must agree that Abraham was a master or at least a great man. I mean, God describes him as a Prophet just a few lines down the page (Genesis 20:7 I think).
So on one hand we can read that God is about to punish Abimelech for taking a man's wife. On the other hand, we can read He will punish him for: Ve-hiv Be-oo-lat Ba-al,(because) she is married to a Great Man. Do I think that latter is more important or better? Not at all. But latter is more interesting to me... Because now we are left with wondering... What if he wasn't a great man? Would God still come to Abimelech in a dream? would He demand for Sarah to be freed? is it right that even an unmarried woman must fear the whim of every prince?
But anyways... The point is the same: "It's not yours... give it back!"
Our discussion, however, began with your assertion that:
A. - Baal can only be translated as Master, and
B. - Baali is not a Hebrew word.
A. My assertion was "As far as different translation of word Baal. You are right, just like any hebrew word it has multiple meanings. Most common "Master""... Where do you see word ONLY? Please, don't put words into my mouth...
B. I said Baali was not the same as Hebrew word Baal. Again... please, don't twist things. But you are right it just simply means "my Baal"

This message is a reply to:
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