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Author Topic:   Patterns and Tautologies (The Circular Logic of Homologies)
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 40 of 67 (478045)
08-11-2008 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Beretta
08-11-2008 2:51 AM


Everything in your post can be argued against. However, to avoid getting lost in the many different threads of argument I'd like to try just one.
Things that look similar morphologically should be similar genetically -it's like having a similar recipe for chocolate icecream and vanilla ice cream and a less similar recipe for ministrone soup.
So, according to this model, a marsupial mouse will be more genetically similar to a placental mouse genetically than the marsupial mouse would be to another marsupial: say a kangaroo? After all, the two mice species look very much the same (chocolate and vanilla icecream) and the kangaroo looks very different (ministone soup).

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 Message 39 by Beretta, posted 08-11-2008 2:51 AM Beretta has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 64 of 67 (479006)
08-23-2008 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by anglagard
08-23-2008 3:45 AM


proprieception and the actual topic
Hilarious. Just because you can't tell the difference between a muscle, used for movement, and a nerve, used for sensation, don't expect anyone else to be impressed by such appalling ignorance.
To be fair, the plantaris is linked to proprieception because of associated receptors. It's an interesting line of reasoning though, just try not to overcook it.
There are a variety of different ways for nature to deal with a feature that no longer serves its 'original purpose', one of these is to stop bothering to develop it another is to develop it and then kill it with apoptosis, and yet another is to co-opt it to another use.
Whether or not the proprieceptive qualities associated with the plantaris muscle will prove to be ultimately 'better' than not bothering to develop the muscle at all only natural selection can tell.
While a vestigial organ has generally lost all of, or most of its original functions, it may retain or have recently developed some other functions. A vestigial organ today might be exapted for some other use in the future.
As for debate tactics, it is genuinely difficult to find a feature that has absolutely no function, no matter how obscure or redundant. Creationists will tend to argue tooth and claw trying to show vestigial features have uses and then after a long drawn out debate declare that loss of function doesn't support evolution anyway despite the fact that vestiges might originally have been raised in a different context. It's a nice bit of misdirection but remember that this topic is about homologies not vestiges with a view to discussing tautologies and patterns.

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