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Author | Topic: Did Homo Erectus build the Tower of Babel? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
coyote writes: The was insufficient time for humans to spread from the Near East after a purported flood and 1) repopulate the world, You're kidding coyote, right? Try P(t)=Cekt and see how long it takes to repopulate the world. 2 million years is nonsensical. Also a quick calculation will show that a human dragging his feet could walk around the world in a couple of years.
2) evolve into the modern races It's the evos that claim the ridiculous times required for things to change, humans in particular are excellent adaptive creatures.
I have that from my own research. A skeleton dated to over 5,000 years in age is linked by mtDNA to living descendants. No replacement by Noah's type of mtDNA. (This disproves the flood right there.) Eves' no doubt! Edited by LucyTheApe, : No reason given. Edited by LucyTheApe, : No reason given.
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
Mod writes: Does P(t)=Cekt accurately model human populations? You would want to hope so or else your radio dating is wrong. P(t)=Cekt is a general solution for any exponential growth model where the amount present is determined by the rate of change. For a specific solution, let's be rather conservative. At P(0)= 8 that is, when t=0 there is Noah, his misses, his three sons and their wives, so.. 8 = Cekt = Ce0 = C So our equation becomes; P(t)= 8ekt Say that Noah and his Misses didn't contribute any further to the population. In the next 20 years Noah and his Misses dies. Each of his sons and daughter in laws have 4 children each couple, live for another 20 years and die. So 20 years on we have a population of 4*3=12 people (not including the parents). Assuming that there are 6 males and 6 females we have 6 mating pairs. They each have 4 children per pair and die within another 20 years, and so on. So after 20 years we have a population of 12. We can use this fact to find the proportionality factor k from P(20)=12 ln(1.5)=20k 0.4055/20 = k = 0.02027 So now we have a specific solution to our problem; P(t) = 8e0.02027t Now what about at P(1000), that is, a thousand years later? P(t) = 8e0.02027*1000 = 8e20.27 = 5 084 393 629 5 Billion in a thousand years! Now think how ridiculous millions of years sounds! Edited by LucyTheApe, : No reason given.
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
coyote writes: Your growth curve is phony. Then so is your radio dating.
Try the same thing with bacteria, and a reproduction time of 20 minutes. Exactly the same model. Of course when bacteria start poisoning each other and run out of food, they die off. Humans move on.
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
Mod writes: I make that out to be 1,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Do you think that's accurate? The problem is with my initial assumptions. Don't blame me if you don't like the maths, blame Newton and Leibniz. Lets say that there are only 9 people after 20 years, that's only one additional person. After a thousand years there is 3200, after 5000 years there is 85 491 796 652 195 or 85 Trillion. Both you and Coyote are missing the point; although at least you're beginning to see the consequences of dealing with vast quantities of time, it blows out. The fact is growth is exponential. Using millions of years is just plain crap, can't you see that?
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
coyote writes: No. You are using a flawed model and getting flawed results. That has no implications for the time spans involved. I'm using EXACTLY the same maths you use to date rocks. If my maths is flawed then so is yours. Humans aren't all that selective, they cover the entire world, from the north pole to the south pole and everywhere in between. They live on the mountains and on the sea, in the deserts and on ice. We make more food than we need, our population has increased 375% in the last 100 years. To suggest that humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years just doesn't make sense. If there were things that looked like humans, they would have to have been restricted to small geographic locations and been extremely stupid; they weren't human. Edited by LucyTheApe, : typo There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything. Pascal
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
Coragyps writes: Nope. Carbon-14 or uranium-238 or rhenium-187 are constrained to a constant rate of decay when they're sittin' around in some mineral somewhere. Animals including humans aren't tied to any one rate of population change. NO, an assumed rate, calculated over a long time. We use radio active decay to try simulate randomness, it's not constant, it is extremely difficult to predict. Just like the growth of human population, you don't know who is going to get pregnant next, but observed over time it seems constant. When the rabbit population increases the foxes get fat, get happy, have plenty of time to flirt with other foxes, one thing leads to another and the fox population increases, then they eat all the rabbits. The rabbit population dies out and so do the foxes. Then it all starts again. If the fly population increases the birds get fat, get horny, have more birds, eat more flies, flies die out, birds die out.... Remember when that lunatic Mao Zedong had all the sparrows killed because they had eaten the grain that the farmers couldn't protect because they were too busy following orders collecting steel. What followed? A famine because the insects had nothing to eat them so they run a mock. Humans have SELF DETERMINATION we do what we want, and go where we want without constraint, excepting a social one, we are top of the chain. There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything. Pascal
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
bluegenes writes: Was H. erectus human, in your opinion? By Homo Erectus do you mean what was,”Discovered by Kamoya Kimeu in 1984 at Nariokotome near Lake Turkana in Kenya (Brown et al.1985; Leakey and Lewin, 1992; Walker and Leakey, 1993).”source ? Is it human? A skeleton constructed form a collection of bones selected from a lake over ten years? By Leaky? It's human alright, human creativity.
As a matter of interest, Lucy, when do you think humans first arrived on your continent? I wasn't there, I'll leave the speculation up to the pseudo-scientists and speculators.
And on the topic, do you agree with Kurt Wise that we descended from H. erectus after the Babel dispersal? Speculators aren't supposed to taken seriously, they're there for entertainment.
Wise also thinks that you, dear Lucy, were semi-erect, and that you spread out and speciated along with the other apes after the flood, before going extinct. Extinct! Am I? Oh no!Semi erect? he would say that. Coyote writes: Creation "science" as usual. Maths, creation science?       Oh, that's right, you guys have you own method of establishing patterns. There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything. Pascal
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
Modulus writes: If we use your model, with your assumptions, we get incorrect answers. That should tell you something is wrong with your models or your variables. Given that, since you attempted to use the model to demonstrate a point, I think your point thus remains unestablished. I raised the growth model in response to Coyotes' claim that there wasn't enough time to repopulate the world since the flood. And then I tried to explain myself by making calculations based on figures I pulled out of my head, that I thought reasonable. You are right in saying the model isn't perfect. I never claimed it was. It's a general model. We could tinker at the edges but we will still have exponential growth. That's just the way it is. Now you and bluegenes talk about disease and big scary foxes decimating the population. What fox bluegenes? Rex?. If you wipe out half the population of the world today, you will only set the growth back 50 years. Now can you see my point. If you don't then that's bad luck because this is not the topic of discussion and I'm not wasting any more time trying to convince you guys of the blatantly obvious. Edited by LucyTheApe, : forgot to sign it. There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything. Pascal
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
The way you used that model is fundamentally flawed. No animal population has unlimited exponential growth. Right you are Coyote, once a limit is reached the population begins to decline. Just like the flies, foxes and rabbits, but not like the humans. Nothing stops us humans, nothing save the Almighty. Like I said, you can tinker at the edges but it's still exponential growth. There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything. Pascal
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LucyTheApe Inactive Member |
If you want to discuss this further, open a new topic.
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