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Author Topic:   The world has turned upside down!!! (Re: McCain vs. Obama for President)
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 168 of 210 (478276)
08-13-2008 2:20 PM


Obama's foreign policy incompetence
can anyone else see what is wrong with this thought process?
Obama writes:
Obama, 47, speaking to reporters today during his weeklong vacation in Hawaii, stressed that the Security Council should play a major role in resolving the crisis.
He said the Security Council should pass a resolution calling for an immediate end to the violence and urged deployment of international peacekeepers in Georgia's breakaway states.
``We want Russia to play its rightful role as a great nation, but with that role comes the responsibility to act as a force for progress in this new century, not regression to the conflicts of the past,'' Obama said.
``This is a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia,'' Obama said. ``The UN must stand up for the sovereignty of its members, and peace in the world.''
source = Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Jazzns, posted 08-13-2008 3:14 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 171 of 210 (478333)
08-14-2008 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Jazzns
08-13-2008 3:14 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence
no you got it. As a founding and permanent member on the UN security concil Russia has veto power. I can't see them passing a resolution against themselves. I doubt Russia really cares what anyone thinks of their presence in the Caucasian region, I think they feel ties to that region just as PR China feels ties to Tibet and XingJiang.
I think it shows Obama, like many democrats, is relatively clueless on foreign policy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Jazzns, posted 08-13-2008 3:14 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Jazzns, posted 08-14-2008 11:49 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 173 of 210 (478340)
08-14-2008 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Jazzns
08-14-2008 11:49 AM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence
I dont think Russia cares about a "call out", but I think the UN is pretty useless to begin with (see the UN "safe area" of Srebenica). Russia (and the former USSR) has vetoed more resolutions (122) than any of the other 4 nations with veto power. The consensus of whether Russia is right or not isn't an issue. Russia controls the vast majority of natural gas exports that the EU imports. If you cut off Russia, then they cut off your gas. Georgia has to look beyond the EU for help on this one, lucky for them a major oil pipline runs through thier nation that we do not want the Russians to have access too. This is a tough one to call, but going through the United Nations Security Council is NOT the way to do it.
I guess this is part of the Obama HOPE strategy.
not trolling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Jazzns, posted 08-14-2008 11:49 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by kongstad, posted 08-14-2008 1:37 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 177 by Jazzns, posted 08-14-2008 3:19 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 175 of 210 (478347)
08-14-2008 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by kongstad
08-14-2008 1:37 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence
That is because the USA was protecting Israel (27 times since 1984). Which is rather odd since you think we do not care about the affairs of anyone outside our borders. If we were, as you say not "acknowledges that there is a world outside the US" then i doubt the USA would have vetoed those resolutions against Israel. Nice try though. We have always been a rogue nation. dangerous though? I guess that is based on perspective and opinoin.
stop preaching about human rights, genocide is always ignored by the UN. the USA is not the only guilty party in it.
- What did the UN do for Human Rights in Rwanda?
- In Srebenica there were 400 Dutch UN peacekeepers, and the area was termend a UN safe zone. What did that do to stop human rights violations against muslim bosnians?
- What is the UN doing in Darfur?
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by kongstad, posted 08-14-2008 1:37 PM kongstad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by kongstad, posted 08-14-2008 2:33 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 178 of 210 (478371)
08-14-2008 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Jazzns
08-14-2008 3:19 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence? But what actually worked?
The Obama approach, (i.e. the rational approach that the rest of the world is using in this situation), brought results.
LOL,it did?
wikipedia writes:
On August 12, 2008, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said that he had ordered an end to military operations in Georgia.
On August 12, Russian President Medvedev met the President-in-Office of the European Union, French President Nicolas Sarkozy, and approved a six-point peace plan. Late that night Georgian President Saakashvili agreed to the text. Sarkozy's plan orignally had just the first four points. Russia added the fifth and sixth points. Georgia asked for the additions in parentheses, but Russia rejected them, and Sarkozy convinced Georgia to agree to the unchanged text.
On August 13, 2008, the Russians occupied both Gori and Senaki. Russian troops were seen on the road from Gori to Tbilisi, but they turned off to the north about an hour from Tbilisi, and encamped. Georgian troops occupied the road six miles (about 10 km) closer to Tbilisi.
On August 14, 2008, the Russians occupied Poti. Georgian troops tried to re-enter Gori, and failed; an attempt to institute joint patrols of Georgian and Russian police in Gori broke down, and there were signs of brief conflict.
the only results so far is Russia occupying a foreign nation! great job Obama/EU/rest of the world. great results!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Jazzns, posted 08-14-2008 3:19 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Jazzns, posted 08-14-2008 4:50 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 183 by Legend, posted 08-14-2008 5:40 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 181 of 210 (478378)
08-14-2008 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by kongstad
08-14-2008 2:33 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence
I'll try and translate what I think you meant, because if you are a Dane, English may not be your 1st language.
So kidnapping people from foreign soil.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (one of the waterboardees) was taken into custody by the Pakistanis in Pakistan, and transfered into US custody. hardly a kindapping or, and its hard to say the pakistanis are foreign in Pakistan.
Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri (another Waterboardee) ws taken into custody in the UAE by the UAE. he has been transferred into US custody. in 2004 he was sentenced to death by a court in Yemen. Not kidnapped either. Also taken by nationals in thier own country.
Funny that someone would think that actually committing atrocities and war crimes (like the US is doing) is better than doing nothing (what you accuse the UN of doing).
funny you "know" what im thinking.
And lets not derail the thread further by going into the vetoes "protecting" Israel.
I was trying to make this about Obama. You are the one derailing this to be about war crimes, and human rights violations. Lets get back to Obama, I agree.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 182 of 210 (478379)
08-14-2008 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Jazzns
08-14-2008 4:50 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence? But what actually worked?
Haha...the French. They didn't do anything. Sarkozy is the president of the EU. If he did anything, other than pander to Russia, he was acting for the EU, not France. The killing has not stopped. There was no compromise, Russia added two points to the peace proceeding and refused to accept anything from Georgia. the ceasefire is a joke, Russia is taking over Georgia. They are not protecting the Ossetians or liberating them, if they were then there is not reason for them to invade Georgia.
Georgia was recklessly killing Ossetians in an attempt to take back the break-away states and since those people are Russian citizens, Russia of course took the opportunity to jump in.
have any documentation on Geogrians "recklessly killing Ossetians" (i cant find anything). The Ossetians have Russian passports given to them by Russia in the early 1990s. Those people should go to Russia then. What kind of shady tactic is that to give citizenship to people in another country, so that you have some made up reason to attack? Maybe Saddam and the Taliban where killing American Citzens and that why we attacked. Great rationale. 9/11 happend on our soil, so dont try and go there.
what is the common problem in the last 10 years in the following regions: Dagestan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, North Ossetia, Georgia?
the answer is the Russian Feredation.
we have our armed forces in occupation of 2 different countries right in RUSSIA'S BACK YARD!?
Are you serious? Put down the kool-aid for a minute. WTF are you talking about? Iraq is hundreds of miles away from the Russian Border, and Afghanistan is over 1000 miles from Russia.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 184 of 210 (478381)
08-14-2008 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Legend
08-14-2008 5:40 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence? But what actually worked?
well, technically Russia is providing protection to a newly-independent country from its aggressive neighbour. Just like the US/Nato did with Kosovo-Serbia.
If you want to be technical about it...US/NATO in the Kosovo war only used strategic bombing and air attacks against targets in Yugoslavia. Kosovo was not occupied until the Yugoslavian forces retreated back into Serbia. US/NATO forces did not invade the Serbian Province of Yugoslavia after they had gained control of Kosovo, and continue to attack Yugoslavians in in Serbia after a ceasefire was agreed upon.
technically speaking it was not just like your example. nice try at spreading dis-information though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Legend, posted 08-14-2008 5:40 PM Legend has replied

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 Message 185 by Legend, posted 08-14-2008 6:27 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 188 of 210 (478435)
08-15-2008 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Hyroglyphx
08-14-2008 9:35 PM


Re: Obama's foreign policy incompetence? But what actually worked?
im there d00d. thanks its much appriciated.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 190 of 210 (478441)
08-15-2008 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Jazzns
08-15-2008 11:36 AM


Re: McCain's Warmongering is on topic
I disagree that this is entirely off topic. AE brought this up in the context of the the candidates responses to the situation which is entirely on-topic. Since then he has demonstrated that he really is not informed about the situation or about the history of geopolitics in this type of situation. That I agree should be remedied in a different thread.
I would still like someone to comment, on Bush and McCain's response to the invasion. That is on topic and does speak to their ineptitude and frankly, dangerous tact that they have taken.
I am not saying that Obama had the perfect response. I may even be critical of the it in that he seemed to get more hawkish the more he talked about it. But that does not change my opinion that what Bush and McCain did was not only not helpful, but unnecessarily antagonistic toward a country with whom we are already pissing off by installing missile defense systems on their borders.
Plus, the effect of their "intervention" was to get told off by the Russians. What that better than what Obama did? Did it help anything at all?
Putin knows that we can't do crap even if we wanted to. To get into it with Russia we would have to start up a draft and that would be suicide for the Republican who like to warmonger from behind podiums.
translation:
I am a thread jacker and I refuse to move to a thread where I am on topic.
Im already over there I have repsonded to you in the other thread. come on over. Man up or shut up.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 194 of 210 (479299)
08-26-2008 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by kuresu
08-19-2008 5:48 PM


word.
im born and raised out of illinois. belive me my former senator is a clueless man who does what his handlers tell him to do. Obama is the 3rd buch term.

This message is a reply to:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 204 of 210 (479498)
08-27-2008 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Hyroglyphx
08-27-2008 1:06 PM


Re: Infanticide
Wow, thanks for the links, and the ammo.
At the very least the information is here for others who may not be so wrapped up in the hype.
I guess you either buy into the Hope and Change Hype, or don't. Its not like the man has any experience, or a record to back himself up with, and from what I'm seeing he changes his mind and tries to change what he said depending on who he is talking to. The whole that is not in my pay-grade comment is clearly showing his ineptitude for handling this job, and is a comment you would NEVER hear a Clinton say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-27-2008 1:06 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by subbie, posted 08-27-2008 7:11 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 208 by Jazzns, posted 08-28-2008 10:36 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 206 of 210 (479546)
08-28-2008 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by subbie
08-27-2008 7:11 PM


Re: Infanticide
Or perhaps he understands that this is a question that the Supreme Court has already answered, as far as the law of this country is concerned, and that there's nothing that a President can do to change it.
no, he basically said its not his job to answer that question. its not his audacity to hope, its his audacity to make dumb comments like that.
BTW the supreme court has said nothing about infantcide, nice try at glossing this over as a general abortion thing.
Cee-lo from the album Still Standing writes:
I Thought you said you was the G-O-D
sound like another nigga to me, ha ha, yeah

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by subbie, posted 08-27-2008 7:11 PM subbie has replied

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4249 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 209 of 210 (479592)
08-28-2008 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Jazzns
08-28-2008 10:36 AM


Re: ???
stray of the topic much.
Just calling you out on a wasted post, because I know the liberal admin refuses to Administer thier own.
Barack is a sham, he proves his inability with his yes today no tomorrow speeches.
True, but then again, the question that he was answering when he made the pay grade comment didn't have anything to do with infanticide either, so I wasn't so much glossing over anything as I was responding on point to your somewhat off topic comment.
So he has no opinoin on that issue, or maybe his handlers weren't thier to tell him what he should say.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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