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Author Topic:   Was Jesus A Legitimate Child?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 65 (480121)
08-31-2008 10:14 PM


In the quick question/answer forum Taz raised the question as to whether Jesus was a legitimate child being God was not married to Mary.
My answer is:
The supreme creator/designer of mankind can legitimately apply any situation to any of his creatures. God = creator; Mary = creature.
Since it may be a topic which warrants some discussion here's where that can happen. What do you think?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
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Message 2 of 65 (480155)
09-01-2008 7:44 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
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Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 3 of 65 (480162)
09-01-2008 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-31-2008 10:14 PM


The supreme creator/designer of mankind can legitimately apply any situation to any of his creatures.
Doesn't this make God an utterly amoral agent?

This message is a reply to:
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Shield
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 4 of 65 (480169)
09-01-2008 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
09-01-2008 8:32 AM


God cant contradict him/her-self
I think Buz' point is, that no matter what god does, it follows his/her rules and just shows his/her power.
God CAN microwave a burrito so hot, that even he himself cannot hold it, though that dosent mean that he cannot hold it.
Contradictions are not contradictions, as long as you have faith.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 5 of 65 (480170)
09-01-2008 9:59 AM


If God is Jesus father and God didn't marry Mary, then what other conclusion can there possibly be?

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 09-01-2008 9:16 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 12 by iano, posted 09-02-2008 6:02 AM Brian has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 65 (480260)
09-01-2008 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
09-01-2008 9:59 AM


Holy Spirit Not A Person
Brian writes:
If God is Jesus father and God didn't marry Mary, then what other conclusion can there possibly be?
1. If God be supreme majesty and creator/designer of the all that is in the universe, it is the supreme majesty who determines what is legitimate and what is not. God sets the rules and parameters of what is good and what is evil.
2. It was the multi present, multipurpose power agent of God which is sent by God throughout the universe to do the work that God purposes to do. The Holy Spirit is not a person. It/he is in a sense that part of God which did things like the work of creation when planet earth was visited as a void waste to become the beautifully designed planet which we live on. It is this spirit/power of God which effected the birth of a holy son in a virgin human creature tainted with the inherent sin nature, inherited from Adam, the first man.
3. The virgin birth was not a natural birth which one could make a rational judgment on as to legitimacy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 09-01-2008 9:59 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by PaulK, posted 09-02-2008 1:46 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 9 by cavediver, posted 09-02-2008 3:38 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 33 by Straggler, posted 09-03-2008 5:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 65 (480261)
09-01-2008 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Shield
09-01-2008 9:56 AM


Re: God cant contradict him/her-self
You're right Rbp and I've elaborated on your point. Thanks.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Shield, posted 09-01-2008 9:56 AM Shield has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 8 of 65 (480269)
09-02-2008 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
09-01-2008 9:16 PM


Re: Holy Spirit Not A Person
So what you are saying is that God secretly amended the laws on legitimacy to create a convenient exception for himself. Why is it better to assume additional immorality on God's part rather than just accept that Jesus was technically illegitimate ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 09-01-2008 9:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 9 of 65 (480272)
09-02-2008 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
09-01-2008 9:16 PM


Re: Holy Spirit Not A Person
If God be supreme majesty and creator/designer of the all that is in the universe, it is the supreme majesty who determines what is legitimate and what is not. God sets the rules and parameters of what is good and what is evil.
So when a Christian states that God is good, that is merely true by definition?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Agobot
Member (Idle past 5529 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 10 of 65 (480278)
09-02-2008 5:11 AM


Technically speaking, wasn't Jesus a semi-orphan?

Replies to this message:
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Shield
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 11 of 65 (480280)
09-02-2008 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Agobot
09-02-2008 5:11 AM


How would he be an orphan? He had his mother and his father. His father is present everywhere according to most christian beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 12 of 65 (480281)
09-02-2008 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
09-01-2008 9:59 AM


quote:
If God is Jesus father and God didn't marry Mary, then what other conclusion can there possibly be? If God is Jesus father and God didn't marry Mary, then what other conclusion can there possibly be?
If she was born again she would be the bride of Christ - who is God. Meaning she would have indeed been married to God.
The question is, I suppose, was Mary born again?
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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 Message 5 by Brian, posted 09-01-2008 9:59 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 13 of 65 (480282)
09-02-2008 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by cavediver
09-02-2008 3:38 AM


Re: Holy Spirit Not A Person
quote:
So when a Christian states that God is good, that is merely true by definition?
If it is true that God is the definition of good (or standard against which you measure other things to see how good they are) then I can't see how the word "merely" belongs in your statement.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Blue Jay, posted 09-02-2008 10:10 PM iano has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5529 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 14 of 65 (480284)
09-02-2008 6:26 AM


Is Jesus the second God?
If God created Jesus as his son and the Bible says that Jesus is God, doesn't that mean that currently there are 2 Gods: God + Jesus?
And more importantly the underlying question:
Can God create another God?
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by iano, posted 09-02-2008 7:08 AM Agobot has replied
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 09-02-2008 9:25 PM Agobot has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 15 of 65 (480287)
09-02-2008 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Agobot
09-02-2008 6:26 AM


Re: Is Jesus the second God?
quote:
If God created Jesus as his son and the Bible says that Jesus is God, doesn't that mean that currently there are 2 Gods: God + Jesus?
If the Bible said that God created Jesus as his son then that would appear to be the case. It doesn't say that however.
quote:
Can God create another God?
An eternally existing God couldn't create another eternally existing God. Whatever he created couldn't, thus, be God (if "eternally existing" is a feature of what God is)
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Agobot, posted 09-02-2008 6:26 AM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Agobot, posted 09-02-2008 9:14 AM iano has replied
 Message 32 by Straggler, posted 09-03-2008 5:32 PM iano has replied

  
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