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Author Topic:   Why does the USA have so many people in jail?
ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5948 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 121 of 129 (304270)
04-14-2006 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by AdminPD
04-14-2006 11:40 AM


Re: Off Topic Alert - Stop
Sorry for last OT post, I didn't hit refresh and see your message until after it was sent.
Understood. --AdminPD
This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 04:23 PM

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 122 of 129 (304271)
04-14-2006 4:05 PM


Temporary topic closure coming in 10 minutes - OK, closure canceled
As mentioned in message 118, there is an imigration specific topic.
Soon going to close this one down for a short time.
Adminnemooseus
Added by edit - It seems the topic closure may not actuall be needed, and thus it is canceled.
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-14-2006 04:15 PM

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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5175 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 123 of 129 (305505)
04-20-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by EZscience
04-14-2006 1:56 PM


Re: Less crime but more prisoners...
Bump for message 119.

This message is a reply to:
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jenna
Junior Member (Idle past 6035 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 10-11-2007


Message 124 of 129 (427406)
10-11-2007 11:26 AM


Complicated subject, complicated answer
What is the answer to our current prison system? I do not know. What I do know is that it clearly doesn't work. If the intended effect is to punish so that people do not reoffend, the mark has definitely been missed. I also know that I am sickened by our current system, at its inefficiency and inefficacy and at the tax dollars that are wasted. Our current system doesn’t make society better, it makes it worse. How can you improve society by removing a thief or drug user from the streets? Assuming neither committed a physical crime against someone, the former can’t repay anyone while behind bars and the later isn’t going to receive the help they may need (rehab, therapy, etc). The person most likely loses their job, now has a record and won’t be able to get a job and in turn becomes a bigger burden on society. When this person gets out of jail and can’t get a job or can no longer get a job that adequately provides for self and/or family, what are the options then? A never- ending cycle of government assistance? Becoming homeless? Theft to provide basics needs? Illegal activities to provide basic needs? (i.e.: prostitution, drug dealing, etc.) How have we benefited society? We have locked someone up at an exorbitant cost to the tax payer and have accomplished nothing in the process. Yes, perhaps the person should have thought of the consequences of their ”crime’ before committing it, but how can the answer be prison? (Or even probation, which still leaves the person with a record and a number of problems like employment, renting/buying a residence, etc.)
Why are we punishing people for 'crimes' that do not harm another person? (Sure, you could make arguments that drug users harm plenty and take away from the community, but I'm speaking of real, definable crimes here, such as theft of property, assault, etc) Why are we regulating what an adult does to their own body? If a person is addicted to drugs and not just using them recreationally, why are we not treating them as we do someone that has a disease? I firmly believe drug addiction is a disease and locking someone up does nothing, except perhaps, provides a quick, painful and inhumane method of detox. Even with crimes of theft/larceny, what purpose are we serving when we put someone in jail? You can’t issue restitution from behind bars.
I would be interested to know that in the case of serving time for drug use/possession, the further breakdown of crime statistics. For example, how many crimes are committed while someone is actually 'high'? What kind of crimes are these? (Violent assaults, petty theft, etc) The bottom line is, what percentage of crimes are committed as a direct result of drug use? Yes, people steal to feed their habit, but why do we lock people up for theft? Does this provide restitution? No. What it does is take away from someone the opportunity to work, the opportunity to contribute to society and the opportunity to actually pay back the person from whom they stole.
What about lesser crimes? Crimes we put people in county jail for? The system is also overrun with misdemeanor offenders. Why are we devoting so much time and energy for ridiculous things? (For example, a few years ago, I had a bad check that I was unaware of. A deputy came to my home and arrested me, cuffed behind my back, in front of all my neighbors and took be down to the local jail. I was lumped right together with people who committed violent assaults, why? Even after paying off the check, I now have a permanent misdemeanor record for a worthless check, inhibiting my ability to get many jobs. FYI: I am a white, educated female [don't judge by this incoherent post LOL], I really can't imagine what it might be like for say, a black female or hispanic male.)
All prison serves to do (in most cases) is take people away from providing for themselves, for their families, from contributing to society. (No, they weren't contributing to society when they committed their offense.) We teach people to become dependent on the government to take care of them and instill a mistrust and fear of law enforcement agency (I see the hole in this argument too, if you fear le, wouldn't this keep you from committing a future offense?) The prison system is about as effective as the welfare system, both of which benefit the government.
I think I have probably rambled incoherently (and certainly not very eloquently), there are so many sides and complexities to this issue and I do not do them justice. I believe that our government sets itself up as God, judge, jury and executioner that it seeks to be unnecessarily and ridiculously punitive as a power and fear tactic. "I'm the almighty government; I can and will punish you and be involved in every aspect of your life." It's the same reason government invented God; to make people afraid and hope this scares them into submission and obedience. Clearly, it doesn't work.

  
Jimnae
Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 09-04-2008


Message 125 of 129 (480490)
09-04-2008 1:25 AM


Does the United States lead the world in prison population?
According to a U.S. Department of Justice report, rates for many types of serious crime are similar in the U.S. and UK, but between 1981 and 1996 they dropped here and rose there. Rates of burglary, assault, and car theft are now higher in Britain. Murder and rape are still vastly higher here, but the gap has narrowed. American law-and-order advocates will say: Of course! We put more of our bad guys in jail! Defenders of civil liberties, on the other hand, tend to see the get-tough approach as a way of putting the screws to minorities
--------------
Jimnae
http://www.christian-drug-rehab.org

Replies to this message:
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 Message 127 by Chiroptera, posted 09-04-2008 5:29 PM Jimnae has not replied

  
TheNaturalist
Member (Idle past 5705 days)
Posts: 86
Joined: 01-18-2008


Message 126 of 129 (480580)
09-04-2008 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Jimnae
09-04-2008 1:25 AM


In the United States (tho i dont know about other countries) the justice system ENTIRELY overreacts to small offenses which might not hurt anyone in any way
and they underreact to horrible offenses, such as murder...
having a totally non-threatening (to anyone) joint is...not nearly as bad...as murder.
people in the justice system are fucking retarded, sometimes

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 129 (480586)
09-04-2008 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Jimnae
09-04-2008 1:25 AM


Re: Does the United States lead the world in prison population?
quote:
American law-and-order advocates will say: Of course! We put more of our bad guys in jail!
"We convict more people and treat them more harshly than any industrialized democracy on the planet. And our efforts have paid off: our murder rate is now slightly less overwhelmingly larger than Britain's!"
To be honest, I really can see law and order types saying that.

Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 128 of 129 (480595)
09-04-2008 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by TheNaturalist
09-04-2008 3:29 PM


the justice system ENTIRELY overreacts to small offenses which might not hurt anyone in any way
Case in point: 60 years for possession of a joint while already a prisoner in the local state prison.
That's bullshit. That's barbaric, or worse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by TheNaturalist, posted 09-04-2008 3:29 PM TheNaturalist has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 129 (480655)
09-05-2008 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by EZscience
04-06-2006 10:30 AM


Current state of affairs
I am interested to hear everyone's ideas about why US has more people in jail than any other country in the world - and more per capita than either Russia or China which we tend to view as punitive countries with less respect for human rights.
Is it because we have more crime or because we define crime more broadly?
This probably has a lot to do with the situation. I have not seen many other countries statutes, but I am guessing they are not as codified as in the United States.
For instance, I was looking at the California Education Code... The damn thing is practically more voluminous than the dictionary. Now, of course these codes are ways to protect everyone against wrongdoers, or it is for clarification. I'm guessing you won't find many other nations splitting hairs like this.
So there are laws people aren't even aware of that are laws. Somehow every citizen is expected to be Joe Lawyer.
Is it because we have more criminals or because we have more aggressive law enforcement?
I actually don't see law enforcement being all that aggresssive, especially for petty crimes. For instance, I pull somebody over (boating) and conduct an inspection of their vessel. In the course of my inspection I see a small plastic baggy containing what appears to be small amounts of marijuana.
My partner overreacts and suggests that the man be arrested and processed. I told him not to be stupid, that all you're going to do is piss off the Long Beach police department for wasting man hours, plus do you really think this guy is now going to stop smoking marijuana? I told him it's not like we found 5 kilos of cocaine. I said, you're going after the little guy. Go after the big fish, becaue all you're going to do is give this man a criminal record.
Or is it merely a reflexion of cultural influences on youth that are stronger in the US than elsewhere, e.g. Hollywood glamorization of crime or some such?
Yes, I definitely think this is a factor. And because this glorification is moving across the pond, you are beginning to see increases of violent crime in countries that allow the same garbage we do.
Shouldn't Americans be ashamed of this statistic, and if not, why not?
I don't know if "ashamed" is quite the word. But the statistics should say something about the current state of affairs.

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
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