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Author Topic:   Brain Evolution
Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 1 of 43 (480439)
09-03-2008 2:36 PM


How did brains evolve? Why did brains evolve? What were the precursors to brains in evolutionary terms? Do we have living examples of various stages of brain evolution in existence now? If so what are they are what do they tell us about the evolutionary paths required to eventually lead to creatures with brains?
How does the evolution of consciousness tie in with the evolutionary development of brains?
Human brains are considered to be the pinnacle of brian evolution but how clever are other animals and what evolutionary pressures could have led to the development of their brains? Are they the same pressures that led to human intelligence or are they the product of different factors and parallel development?
Have brains evolved only once or, like eyes, have they evolved via a variety of paths?
I have no real knowledge on this subject, no axe to grind and no deep insights to share. I am asking thee questions because I know that I do not know the answers. Not because I think that I do. I ask because I am interested to know what the current scientific thinking and theories are regards this matter.
If this list of questions is not considered complete enough to be a topic in it's own right then I fully understand and will get googling instead.
However I thought it might be a subject that EvC memebers have some interest in, and knowledge of. It is also not a topic I have seen discussed here previously.
If promoted I guess it should go in the Biological Evolution area.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by onifre, posted 09-03-2008 4:49 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 13 by Fosdick, posted 09-05-2008 11:55 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 7 of 43 (480465)
09-03-2008 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by onifre
09-03-2008 4:49 PM


Brains
I hope this helped
Indeed it did. Fascinating.
So from this the conclusion is that, to the best of our knowledge, brains have developed only once in life on Earth but that the beginnings and foundations of brains go right back to some of the earliest lifeforms known.
Any thoughts (or links) on the nature and evolution of consciousness and the relation of this to brains? How "conscious" are jellyfish? Insects? Lizards? For example. (whatever the question "how conscious" even means )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by onifre, posted 09-03-2008 4:49 PM onifre has replied

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 Message 8 by onifre, posted 09-03-2008 6:23 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-04-2008 10:58 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 10 of 43 (480603)
09-04-2008 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
09-04-2008 10:58 AM


Re: Brains
Are mice more conscious than cockroaches?
Are dolphins more conscious than rats?
If by consciousness we're talking about being sapient, then I think that language is an important component.
I don't think consciousness and sapience are the same thing. Nor do I think language is a pre-requisite for consciousness (although it may increase it!!)
I am still not sure what is meant by the term "more conscious" even though I feel we instinctively think of increasing intelligence as resulting in increasing consciousness.
Is an insect more conscious than an insect? A dog more conscious than a fly? etc. etc. etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-04-2008 10:58 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 15 of 43 (480670)
09-05-2008 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by New Cat's Eye
09-05-2008 10:12 AM


Evolving Consciousness
I agree instinctively with everything you say regarding the relationships between consciousness, sapience, intelligence et. etc.
Is it possible to conceive of a being that is "more conscious" than a human? I don't mean this in a theistic sense (I do not want to derail the therad down that route at all). I mean is it conceivable that humans (or other creatures) could evolve greater intelligence, greater sapience and greater consciousness than we currently possess?
What would such a creature be able to do that we are not capable of? What does 'more conscious' in this context actually mean?

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 Message 17 by onifre, posted 09-05-2008 3:48 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 21 of 43 (480723)
09-05-2008 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by onifre
09-05-2008 3:48 PM


Re: Evolving Consciousness
I would tend to side with Michio Kaku here in saying that the greater the level of consciousness,(or awareness), becomes, the further into space we(or other creatures) will go. Slowly becoming Type I, Type II, and Type III civilizations.
I am a big fan of Kaku
Does this require increased consciousness or increased knowledge? You seem to be saying that they are the same thing? I don't think I agree.
I honestly don't think I am any more "conscious" than my ancestors of a few hundred years ago because my level of scientific knowledge is that much greater than theirs could possibly be. Not in the sense that we are "more conscious" than a dog or an insect at any rate.
If we could bring a newborn human baby from 10,000 years ago and raise it in the modern world I have little doubt it would be as "conscious" as you me.
When I asked this -
I mean is it conceivable that humans (or other creatures) could evolve greater intelligence, greater sapience and greater consciousness than we currently possess?
I was more thinking of humans (or other beings) that have evolved a level of consciousness that we are currently incapable of. Something beyond knowledge perhaps? What would such a creature be capable of that we are not? Would their language necesarily be sophisticated? Would their braisn nevessarily be physiologically different to ours?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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