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Author Topic:   Brain Evolution
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 13 of 43 (480654)
09-05-2008 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
09-03-2008 2:36 PM


Consciousness and the brain
Straggler writes:
How does the evolution of consciousness tie in with the evolutionary development of brains?
Very good question. But it begs for a definition of consciousness and assumes it's a brain-development thing. Maybe it isn't. Maybe consciousness is a state of mind, not a part of the brain. Maybe two humans differ in their respective states of consciousness on the grounds of their perceptions of reality. Maybe one person says consciousness is being closer to God, while another says it is being closer to nature. When Pat Roberston said that New Orleans was punished by Katrina because it fostered gay behavior was he more conscious than a NOAA weatherman who said it had to do with global warming?
Consciousness is a measure of correctness in reality perception. But whose reality? Was Einstein more conscious than Gandhi? Is Barack Obama more conscious than George Bush? Is a human SCUBA diver more conscious than cuttlefish in its reef?
I'm not at all sure that consciousness is an "evolving brain" thing. For humans, it's more like an "evolving symbolic language? thing. For cuttlefish, it may be more like a "evolving color pattern" thing.
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 09-03-2008 2:36 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by onifre, posted 09-05-2008 1:15 PM Fosdick has replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 16 of 43 (480680)
09-05-2008 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by onifre
09-05-2008 1:15 PM


Re: Consciousness and the brain
onfire writes:
So if the brain evolved, so did the levels of consciousness. Perhaps a primitive self/environmental awareness localized to a small area slowly increasing as more is perceived and understood.
Perhaps the kind of consciousness you're talking about is carried through our symbolic language. I am suspicious of that. Now, perhaps the parts of brains that engage symbolic language are where consciousness manifests logistically. And perhaps symbolic language is just another tool for survival, which may also be what consciousness is.
If this is germane: A walk with my dog through the woods is all I need to show me that his "consciousness" and mine are two different things, and that his may be a whole lot more perceptive than mine in that environment.
”HM

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 Message 14 by onifre, posted 09-05-2008 1:15 PM onifre has replied

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 Message 28 by onifre, posted 09-07-2008 1:00 PM Fosdick has replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 29 of 43 (480890)
09-07-2008 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by onifre
09-07-2008 1:00 PM


Re: Consciousness and the brain
Hi, onfire. A question: Do you think Helen Keller gained more consciousness after she was trained to use a symbolic language? Or was her human consciousness innate to her and fixed from birth?
”HM

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 Message 28 by onifre, posted 09-07-2008 1:00 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by onifre, posted 09-07-2008 1:36 PM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 31 by Otto Tellick, posted 09-07-2008 11:04 PM Fosdick has not replied

  
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