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Author Topic:   update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside
Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 206 of 224 (480807)
09-06-2008 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Syamsu
09-06-2008 3:33 PM


Re: The Importance of Brains
So according to freedom theory are the decision making capablities of a living mouse with a brain present and intact the same as or less than the decision making capabilities of a mouse with it's brain removed?
In terms of freedom theory what, if any, is the difference between the two in terms of their ability to make decisions and choices?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 3:33 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 3:51 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 208 of 224 (480814)
09-06-2008 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Syamsu
09-06-2008 3:51 PM


Re: The Importance of Brains
So according to freedom theory are the decision making capablities of a living mouse with a brain present and intact the same as or less than the decision making capabilities of a mouse with it's brain removed?
In terms of freedom theory what, if any, is the difference between the two in terms of their ability to make decisions and choices?
That would be control.
What does that mean?
Can you give a more specific practical example of the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 3:51 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 5:44 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 210 of 224 (480827)
09-06-2008 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Syamsu
09-06-2008 5:44 PM


Re: The Importance of Brains
I don't know more about it then yourself.
Well I would say that the brainless mouse is incapable of making decisions. It's dead. It has no brain.
Are you saying that according to freedom theory the dead, brainless mouse is now incapable of making decisions too?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 5:44 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 7:29 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 212 of 224 (480864)
09-07-2008 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Syamsu
09-06-2008 7:29 PM


Re: The Importance of Brains
If toothbrushes decide then dead brainless mice decide too.
You have repeatedly asserted that it is common sense and obvious that freedom is true. However I do not think many sane people would consider it common sense or obvious that dead mice with their brains removed continue to make choices and decisions.
Despite the fact that your asertions seem literally insane to me I am prepared to put that on hold for one moment to further investigate your thinking.
Surely you must admit that the apparent and observable ability of living creatures with functioning brains to make choices and decisions beyond those of inanimate objects or dead brainless creatures? Do you indeed recognise this? Or not?
How do you account for this via freedom theory?
If you cannot account for, or even acknowledge, all the observational evidence that brainless entities appear to exhibit less freedom than their brained conterparts via freedom theory is this not a fairly significant flaw in the theory as a whole?
A theory of decisions that explains none of the observational evidence regarding the ability to make decisions. That is a pretty weak position wouldn't you agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 7:29 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 9:59 AM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 214 of 224 (480871)
09-07-2008 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Syamsu
09-07-2008 9:59 AM


Re: The Importance of Brains
that was already asked and answered a couple of times.
Where? I have yet to see you directly answer a single question in this thread.
You still seem to be stuck with a concept of freedom that is not spiritual, that inhibits your understanding. The thing can go left or right, the decision is free, so theres nothing predetermining either way.
You keep asserting this but it is false and it obviously demonstrates the exact opposite to that which you claim to be true.
I can decide to go left or right. You can decide to go left or right. The living, functioning brain owning mouse can decide to go left or right. The thing we all have in common is that we all have functioning brains (well....arguably partially functional in your case)
A toothbrush, a planet or a dead, de-brained mouse however give no observable indication of being able to decide to go left, right or anywhere else. These things do not have functioning brains.
Can you see a pattern emerging here at all? Brains = Ability to decide to go left or right.
No brains = No ability to decide to go left or right.
Is this not what the obervable evidence suggests?
Even using your own simplistic left/right example just demonstrates the opposite to everything you are asserting.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 9:59 AM Syamsu has not replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 218 of 224 (480910)
09-07-2008 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Syamsu
09-07-2008 2:55 PM


Re: The Importance of Brains
None of this tackles the issue of why things with brains are observed to have considerably more freedom than those things that do not have brains.
Not explaining this rather obvious observation would seem to be a particularly fundamental flaw in your theory.
How do you address this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 2:55 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 6:01 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 222 of 224 (480920)
09-07-2008 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Syamsu
09-07-2008 6:01 PM


Re: The Importance of Brains
As said before, creationism would still be true if inanimate things did not decide, because freedom would still be real.
so inanimate things don't decide, only brains decide, creationism is true
inanimate things decide, brains also decide, creationism is true
I hope this is clear to you now after telling you 4 times or so.
The fact that you think that creationism is true regardless of evidence, regardless of argument, regardless of reason and regardless of any comprehension of anticipation theory is indeed very very very clear.
What is less clear is what exactly you think freedom is, what it is freedom actually applies to and why any of this would conceivably support any creationist position?
Your whole argument seems to amount to: I can decide to go left or right therefore creationism is true.
The problem with this is that conventional science does not deny you the ability to decide to go left or right. In fact conventinal science suggests that you do have this ability to decide whilst a toothbrush or a dead brainless mouse do not. As observed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 6:01 PM Syamsu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by AdminNosy, posted 09-07-2008 6:42 PM Straggler has not replied

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