Can God create another God?

Hi, John. Zechariah 14 doesn't say anything about the formation of Gods. It talks about a specific day, and clearly says it’s only a single day, and says how, in that day, there shall only be one Lord. It doesn’t say anything about there not being other Lords before or after that day, nor does it say that these other Lords will cease to exist during that day. It could just as easily be interpreted to say that any other Lords would simply no longer be considered Lords on that day.And, besides, does "Lord" mean the same as "God"? Paul seems to use the terms as if they were distinct from one another (although they are, according to trinitarians, applied to the same entity). Why should we assume Zechariah was any different?Edited by Bluejay, : Added scriptural reference.Edited by Bluejay, : formatting issue

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-BluejayDarwin loves you.

This thousand year day of the ruling and reigning of Christ since one day to God is 1000 years akjv 2 peter 3:8. You forget about the rapture and those reaped in the first resurrection (the armies of the Lord) reigning with him those thousand years. akjkv revelation 20:4. akjv Zechariah 14:5 says the Lord and my God will come and the saints with him. rev 19:13-16 calls him the Word of God and King of Kings, and LORD OF LORDS. It also mentions the armies (saints) in heaven following mentioned in Zechariah 14:5. Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Your point is well taken. Well, anything is possible. But if you read elsewhere in the Bible, it is plain to say that there is only one God. I am reminded of the book of Acts in chapter 17 where he is haggling with Athenian philosophers."While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean." (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)

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Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.

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"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

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"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone”an image made by man's design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." -Acts 17:16-31Paul here is of course not conceding that there are multiple gods, but rather, he is acknowledging his awareness of the belief of pagan Greeks that believe in polytheism, and knows their pantheon. Life is endless speculation. It was someone of a somewhat unlikely source, an atheist and nihilist, David Hume, that stated that at some point we have to come to believe in something even though nothing is truly verifiable. Otherwise we end up not living, but succumbing to madness trying to figure it all out. I guess you can place that on par with Pontius Pilate's question to Jesus, "What is Truth®". The same thing in different forms. Is not ice, vapor, and water all H²O? So it is with the Trinity. Anything is possible, but even the Scriptures say that we can be "one" with God. Does that mean we are part of God, or does that mean we can be a part of His will? Likewise, if my wife and I are "one" do we share the same body, or is it supposed to be a description of our desire for harmony and unity with each other?But I will go so far to say that Biblical literalists might have a hard time trying to distinguish the difference between what is clear allegory and what is literal. I don't personally think so, but you are welcome to that interpretation. The Holy Ghost is supposed to be God in spirit, that intangible lifeforce that governs all things.There are pieces of scripture that attempt to explain that which cannot reasonably be explained:"We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"” but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." -1st Corinthians 2:6-16If you're willing to accept it, what we are haggling over would likely be considered "the wisdom of men."The Biblical Hebrew word for one is Echad, which speaks of a corporate oneness, not merely a numeric count. God, then, is a plural personage, and yet, is still one. The first evidence of such can be found in the very first book of the Pentateuch, Genesis.“And God said, let US make man in Our own image, after Our likeness.” -Genesis 1:26Who is the Us in this piece of Scripture? We know that angels do not have the power to create, so we can rule them out. We know that man has not the power either, nor was he alive on earth to create himself; so, they too, are ruled out. The ”Us’ and ”Our’, is connoting the Godhead; the Holy Trinity.Belief in the Trinity is one of many aversions that Judaism has with Christianity. They view this as idolatry, seemingly incapable of distinguishing the characteristics of God, and thus, equating them to polytheism. Interestingly enough, however, the pseudo-spiritual belief, Kaballah, which is widely venerated by many Jews, describes God as having 12 characteristics composing one God.There are a few passages of Scriptures that allude to this, which is how the concept of the Trinity persists.“In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it” -John 1:1-5And this one is the most compelling to me, as far as it relates to the concept of trying to understand the Trinity on relation the law of non-contradiction.“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on the cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the Name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” -Philippians 2:5-11The Apostle Paul explains in this verse that understanding the Trinity is not something that can be fully grasped, humanly speaking.Likewise, it is also mentioned that when the prophet Yeshayahu (Isaiah) declared, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Name of the Lord,” he was not being redundant for effect. Some believe that the intimation given by Isaiah is explicit -- that he was conveying the principle of the Trinity.Anyhow, that is my understanding of it. Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.

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“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

I think it might be a little enlightening to some of you to hear what the Jewish perspective on G-d is. The idea of G-d is a Being that contains all means of perfection. This does not mean that G-d can do anything imaginable by human beings. Every action that will lead to a defect in G-d's perfection "cannot" be done. Creating another G-d will necessarily limit G-d, and undermine His perfection. Therefore, such a thing is not possible even for G-d. Just the idea that a human can think of something that G-d cannot do does not limit His perfection. This is because all of the things that humans are thinking of are limiting by there very nature. This question is, therefore, an example of the general question: Can G-d limit himself? The answer is that G-d cannot limit himself. The ability to limit one's self is not a perfection. Therefore, G-d is not capable of doing certain things, but this does not yield any imperfection. This is the Jewish idea of G-d. I don't know what your god can or cannot do, but that is only a problem with your conception. I hope this was helpful. Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.Edited by Open MInd, : Most of these edits were for spelling and grammar issues. Some sentences were added in order to make the point a little more clear.

It's interesting to note that this "discussion" is identical in every way to a group of children comparing their imaginary friends, or arguing over the capabilities of a comic book character.

Good post, Open Mind!

The one difference, which I cannot prove nor can you disprove, is that God imagined you and I far before we even had the capacity to imagine Him.

Hi, John. Fine, so, then, it's a 1000 years. Now, repeat my argument, except insert "that 1000 years" where I wrote "that day." It doesn't change the substance of my argument at all.

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-BluejayDarwin loves you.

Hi, Nem. To me, it still says that our "oneness" is the same as their "oneness." Of coure, I do notice now that, at least in this verse, it doesn't directly say, "that they may be one with me" (though I think it does later: I'm not reading my notes right now, and my wife's hounding me for lunch, so I've got to run).It was a good, well-thought out post. Thank you.

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-BluejayDarwin loves you.

In that DAY it says the Saints will be living and reigning with Christ. akjv rev 1:6 akjv rev 20:4P.S. If the Saints are to be reigning with Christ in that DAY. Christ is still LORD of lords and KING of kings, etc...Jesus says He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty. akjv rev 1:8Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Hi, John. What are you talking about?

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-BluejayDarwin loves you.

Hi, Open MInd. I disagree: how would creating another all-powerful being make God not all-powerful? To me, this sounds like you're saying that God is only all-powerful if He's the only one.To me, it sounds like you're saying the equivalent of, "Michael Jordan was a good basketball player, until Kobe Bryant came along. Now, Michael Jordan is no longer a good basketball player." I need some clarification on this statement, particularly the bolded part.Are you saying that anything we could imagine God doing results in limitations to His power?The following are not sarcastic criticisms, they are legitimate questions:Does my belief that God can get me into Heaven limit God's perfection? If so, how?Does my belief that God can throw down fire from Heaven to destroy Sodom, Gomorrha and the priests of Baal also limit God's perfection? If so, how?Does my belief that God can create another God also limit God's perfection? If so, how? And how is this different from the other two?

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-BluejayDarwin loves you.

Hi, BluejayThank you for pointing out some unclear points in my post. With regard to your first point I must explain why G-d will be limited by another being that has exactly the same attributes. You are correct when you say that G-d is only all-powerful if He is the only one. This is explained through many of the other previous posts in this thread. Someone mentioned that it would be funny to watch the two gods fight it out. This line of reasoning makes my point clear. G-d is not all powerful or perfect if there is another being that will have equal control. Anything that one being wishes to be may be contradicted by the other being. Since the creation of another god involves creating a being equally as powerful as the first being, the first being is now limited by the second and the second is limited by the first.With regard to your second point, I am sorry for being a little too unclear. I meant to say that most of the questions that human beings ask along the lines of "If he is so great can he ...?" usually involve some sort of limitation. Therefore, the underlining question in most of these questions is: Can G-d limit Himself? The answer to this question is no. Similar questions are: Can He destroy Himself? Can He make a rock that even He cannot lift? Can He create a competitor? All of these questions are answered in the same manner. G-d cannot limit Himself. And this is not a limitation of His perfection.

Galactus is a primal force of nature spawned at the dawn of the Universe, so he existed long before Stan Lee wrote about him in the Fantastic Four comics!

It says the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of the Lord as the seventh angel sounds the trumpet.The kings of the earth disagree and become food for the birds when the LORD comes down from heaven to do battle. akjv Zechariah 14:5 & akjv rev 19:16-18P.S. Once the kings of the earth that battle the Lord become bird food you only have the Lord God the Word ruling and reigning with the first resurrected saints the entire earth from Jerusalem.P.S. Personally lets give thanks to the Lord God Almighty because he willing to take his great power and reign. Surely I come quickly Amen. Even so come Lord Jesus. akjv rev 22:20.akjv rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.The Word say the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ and he shall reign for ever. akjv rev 11:15When you talk about King think your talking a bit about the virgin birth of the line of David. Let Praise and Worship the Lord God lets hail King Jesus! Immanuel akjv Isa 7:14Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.