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Author Topic:   The Unbended Curved Bar Space Slugout Thread
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 61 of 413 (481557)
09-11-2008 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Buzsaw
09-11-2008 8:39 AM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
quote:
1. To determine what property/properties of space have the ability to curve/be curved.
2. To determine what property/properties of space have the ability to cause the joining of the two ends of a bar or line of which all dimensions are unbended and absolute straight.
The second has already been repeatedly answered. This thread is in Free-For-All because of your refusal to accept the answers. Indeed you were boasting that it hadn't been answered, even though it had.
The first doesn't even make sense.
And your posts in this thread indicate that you're desperate to avoid accepting the answers that you have been given.
quote:
ABE: Make that "bar" and drop the "line" since lines can either be 2 dimensional imaginary or 3 dimensional lines consisting of material. Thanks to Huntard for pointing this out to me.
In geometry a line has ONE dimension. And it is geometry that is the issue.
Given that space is curved so that a straight line will wrap around and meet itself, how does your straight iron bar avoid meeting itself ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 8:39 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 6:51 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 72 by johnfolton, posted 09-11-2008 8:11 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 85 by Buzsaw, posted 09-12-2008 12:01 AM PaulK has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 413 (481585)
09-11-2008 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by PaulK
09-11-2008 3:53 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
PaulK writes:
Given that space is curved so that a straight line will wrap around and meet itself, how does your straight iron bar avoid meeting itself ?
1. You first need to identify the alleged properties which allow for space to be curved. I go with the ones who think there are no such properties of space capable of being curved. What are they?
2. My hypothetical bar is three dimensional, absolutely straight and unbended. It must be bent to join it's ends. Any engineer will attest to that and zillions of miles will not change that.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2008 3:53 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by DrJones*, posted 09-11-2008 7:19 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 65 by lyx2no, posted 09-11-2008 7:27 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 87 by PaulK, posted 09-12-2008 1:22 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 413 (481588)
09-11-2008 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by kuresu
09-11-2008 2:35 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
kuresu writes:
Quite frankly, I don't know anything about physics, so I stay out of it. Words for the wise, perhaps?
Since you're wrong, why can't you admit it?
You've just admitted that you really can't be an authority on who's argument is valid.
kuresu writes:
ABE:I just realized this was the free for all thread. So that means you don't have to answer and I don't have to comply with you. So if I really, really wanted to, I could make your life in this thread living hell.
Go at it, if that's the way you like to get your kicks. After 5 years here, the ole man's skin has toughened up to the extent that your kicks is about all you're going to accomplish by whatever you have in mind.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by kuresu, posted 09-11-2008 2:35 PM kuresu has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 64 of 413 (481591)
09-11-2008 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
09-11-2008 6:51 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
I go with the ones who think there are no such properties of space capable of being curved
And as usual you'd be wrong.
Any engineer will attest to that and zillions of miles will not change that.
False. I am an engineer and I understand that an infinitly long, straight bar will eventually meet up with itself.
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 6:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 7:28 PM DrJones* has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 65 of 413 (481593)
09-11-2008 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
09-11-2008 6:51 PM


Outside an Engineer's Pay Grade
I go with the ones who think there are no such properties of space capable of being curved.
You know, of course, that Eddington's 1919 observation of bent space was the first confirmation of GR; so those whom you go along with are pretty much nuts.
Any engineer will attest to that and zillions of miles will not change that.
First, you're wrong. Second, you've got better then engineers* right here. Exactly how daft are you trying to prove yourself to be? I know you don't read my posts, but you can't be reading your posts either. At least you upped the distance to zilliions. And what the hell is "unbended"? Are there no irregular verbs in your town.
P.S.: The bar is not ☞ bent ☜ ” that bit is true ” if it were the ends would miss each other. Nothing bends the bar, it follows an absolutely straight line.
*Not that there is anything wrong with engineers. Some of my best friends are engineers.
Edited by lyx2no, : *
Edited by lyx2no, : GR not SR. Sorry , my bad.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 6:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 8:08 PM lyx2no has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 413 (481594)
09-11-2008 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by DrJones*
09-11-2008 7:19 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
DrJones writes:
And as usual you'd be wrong.
False. I am an engineer and I understand that an infinitly long, straight bar will eventually meet up with itself.
Great Doc! You're the man we want. We need you to explain to us here and all the www precisely what properties of space allow for it to be curved. I anxiously await your answer.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by DrJones*, posted 09-11-2008 7:19 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by DrJones*, posted 09-11-2008 7:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 67 of 413 (481597)
09-11-2008 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Buzsaw
09-11-2008 7:28 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
Great Doc! You're the man we want.
I'm an engineer, not a physicist. You've already been given the answer by actual physicists that you've ignored.
We need you to explain to us here
Why should I? you've already appointed yourself the smartest man on Earth, your arrogance will just cause you to ignore the answer yet again.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 7:28 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 8:38 PM DrJones* has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 413 (481598)
09-11-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
09-09-2008 10:41 PM


Re: But it is a science topic Buz
I know exactly how it will go. A lot of time has been wasted trying to help you understand things Buz. This one is waaaay beyond you.
You will NOT ever "get it" Buz. Just give up on this and consider yourself ever so much smarter than everyone else.
Could you at least attempt to create the appearance that you're unbiased when you're in a moderator role?

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 09-09-2008 10:41 PM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by lyx2no, posted 09-11-2008 7:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 70 by AdminNosy, posted 09-11-2008 7:58 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 69 of 413 (481599)
09-11-2008 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Hyroglyphx
09-11-2008 7:48 PM


Re: But it is a science topic Buz
Could you at least attempt to create the appearance that you're unbiased when you're in a moderator role?
You're asking that he be oblivious, not unbiased.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2008 7:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 8:28 PM lyx2no has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 70 of 413 (481600)
09-11-2008 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Hyroglyphx
09-11-2008 7:48 PM


unbiased
I don't show a bias when I base my opinion on lots of information that an individual has posted.
If my conclusion is based on bias rather than fact perhaps you can show how Buz is actually "getting it" at all. Even a tiny little bit. Just a smidgeon. Can you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2008 7:48 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2008 8:17 PM AdminNosy has not replied
 Message 76 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2008 8:38 PM AdminNosy has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 413 (481601)
09-11-2008 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by lyx2no
09-11-2008 7:27 PM


Re: Outside an Engineer's Pay Grade
lyx2no writes:
You know, of course, that Eddington's 1919 observation of bent space was the first conformation of SR; so those whom you go along with are pretty much nuts.
My understanding is that Eddington's 1919 observation was curvature of light rays and not space perse.
Did he identify any properties of space rendering it able to be curved?
lyx2no writes:
And what the hell is "unbended"? Are there no irregular verbs in your town.
Make that not bended. Thanks. I need to clarify that hereafter.
lyx2no writes:
P.S.: The bar is not bent — ” that bit is true ” if it were the ends would miss each other. Nothing bends the bar, it follows an absolutely straight line.
Hold it! Time again for clarification. Since "line" and "bar" can have different dimensions, let's just say the the 3D bar remains absolutely straight and not bended. Since the "line" can be bent and curved that's not my position which I am arguing.
I'm learning here, so bear with me as I fine tune my argument so as not to be obfuscated.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by lyx2no, posted 09-11-2008 7:27 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by lyx2no, posted 09-11-2008 9:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 72 of 413 (481604)
09-11-2008 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by PaulK
09-11-2008 3:53 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
Given that space is curved so that a straight line will wrap around and meet itself, how does your straight iron bar avoid meeting itself ?
What your all missing is when your looking at the entire universe your seeing the end result of all the dimensions added up and the universe comes out flat. Time is not curving back upon itself if its going forward in time.
Greene presently believes only one dimension to time even if two leaning only if the bar magnet went back in time could it meet up with itself because time is not curving back but stretching out the expansion of the heavens.
With the entire universe being flat time dilation seems only to go forward not backwards in time. If you were able to look down a blackhole suspect you'd have go backward in time to see yourself going forward in time. If that would even be possible as an observer, etc...
It just seems everything only moves forward in time perhaps at different rates? space dilation, expansion, etc... Prophecy in the bible is knowing the end from the beginning. God saying it is done, it is finished. He never has to go backwards to correct because he always knows the end from the beginning. It was why all the creatures in genesis were fully formed in the beginning not at the ending and the bible telling us the ending from the beginning. Well whatever, enjoy the video!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtdE662eY_M

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2008 3:53 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by PaulK, posted 09-12-2008 1:30 AM johnfolton has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 413 (481605)
09-11-2008 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by AdminNosy
09-11-2008 7:58 PM


Re: unbiased
AdminNosy writes:
I don't show a bias when I base my opinion on lots of information that an individual has posted.
AdminNosy, with all due respect to your position, you and I will likely never ever agree on anything. Our POVs and ideology are nearly 180 degrees apart 99.9% of the time, so how can you objectively judge my intelligence and capability as an unbiased moderator by making such a statement?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by AdminNosy, posted 09-11-2008 7:58 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 413 (481606)
09-11-2008 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by lyx2no
09-11-2008 7:52 PM


Re: But it is a science topic Buz
lyx2no writes:
You're asking that he be oblivious, not unbiased.
With the majority like you who are of the good admin's persuasion in his amen choir folks of the minority POV who's skin is thick enough to hang in here have our plate full.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by lyx2no, posted 09-11-2008 7:52 PM lyx2no has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 413 (481607)
09-11-2008 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by DrJones*
09-11-2008 7:40 PM


Re: Purpose Of Thread Clarified And Updated Relative To Responses
DrJones writes:
I'm an engineer, not a physicist. You've already been given the answer by actual physicists that you've ignored.
Why should I? you've already appointed yourself the smartest man on Earth, your arrogance will just cause you to ignore the answer yet again.
That's two of you, my antagonists, now who admit to having insufficient knowledge to evaluate who's POV is valid.
It appears that we're narrowing the qualified opponents to intelligently counter my POVs down somewhat. I'm beginning to see why we're not getting some substantive answers to my arguments.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by DrJones*, posted 09-11-2008 7:40 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by DrJones*, posted 09-11-2008 9:21 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 102 by subbie, posted 09-12-2008 4:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

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