Evidence for God

I am a proof that the Torah could not have started that way. I do not believe you. There is no evidence of what you are saying. You will definitely not make me change my lifestyle because of your text.Do you see what I am getting at? You will never be able to sell such a text to anyone. Did you ever read the Torah? Probably not. You may have read a version of a Christian translation, but you did not read from an actual Torah scroll. Every Torah scroll in use today is identical with the exception of a single letter that does not change the meaning of the word. If you read from those than you will know exactly what is written in the Torah, not a translation from a "different religion." If you are really interested, according to tradition, the actual Torah scroll was written by Moses; in the Torah he says to the Jews,"YOU heard G-d speak." And he says,"YOU saw me go up and speak to G-d." If this conversation really took place, and Moses was the one who wrote the Torah and gave it to the Jews, there is no question that G-d spoke to all of the Jews. This is simple logic. If G-d did not speak to all of the Jews than Moses was lying straight to their faces. This lie would be proven false. That is no way to start a religion, and it is not possible for a fake religion to start in this manner. That is why, if you did not notice, nobody in this discussion wants to admit that Moses wrote the Torah. The documentary "hypothesis" claims that the author must have been more than one person. Now you understand why. The Torah written by Moses implies G-d speaking to the Jews.

I will explain to you all how every religion was invented. You probably do not need me to explain it to you because you have probably given it enough thought on your own. However, you may all be wondering how it is possible that all of the people who believe in there religion could be so dumb. This is a problem too because most of the world believes in one religion or another. Now I myself happen to be what you would call a naive creationist. However, I am not fooled by rbp's book by prophet lurr (discussed earlier in this thread). Why will I not be fooled? Because I believe that he may be lying; in fact I am certain that he is lying. So how does religion start?Some of the ancient religions looked exactly like this website. Every single person looked at the world and saw another god. The sun, moon , stars, rivers, wind, and fire could all be thought of as gods. Nobody knew one way or another, and all of the early religions were unorganized fairy tales.Most modern religions are organized groups. These religions all seem to start in the same way. One man was able to speak to some god. However, this god was not going to speak to anyone else because this individual was the last prophet. Why do people believe in this man? The answer is simple; he is able to say it with such power of conviction, and nobody can prove him wrong. He says that he was spoken to, why should he lie? He looks like a holy man. Also, he may be able to perform some magic tricks which the people cannot understand. Since they have no way of disproving him they may end up believing him.But why does anyone want to start the religion in the first place? The answer is simple. He will ask everyone to give him money in order to be forgiven for their "sins." He will also use this religion as a method of gaining power over people, and he will not have to actually work a day in his life. He will be famous for the rest of his life. It must be fun to have everyone calling you a prophet. He may even find some women that find him to be quite impressive. It is also possible that this person was completely insane. Nobody, does something without a purpose. Once a religion is in place, any person with charisma can claim to be the next prophet, and he can be given donations in order to forgive peoples sins. Again, there is money, power, and fame. All of these people are liars, but none of them live in the same time period as the founder of the religion. A religion can have many liars once it is already started. But, the beginning of almost every religion can be traced back to a single liar.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

This is exactly what the Torah says. You may want to read it (not a translation made by "another religion").

Where is the evidence of the above statement. Yes there are quacks, but most religious beliefs are nothing more than mythology to explain what the particular group could not explain.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Can you now tell the story about how Buffy became a Vampire Slayer, please, please, please, please, please.Edited by lyx2no, : Needed two more "pleases".

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

Where is the evidence of the above statement? Also, you refer to religious beliefs, and you make no mention of the formation of an actual organized religion. These religious beliefs that you are
referring to are those of the ancient religions that were not organized much at all. These religions are not practiced today by many people. Please explore the foundation of the widely practiced religions of today and you will see where I am coming from. I might add as well that the Torah makes almost no mention of the physics of the Universe. All it basically says is that the world you see today was created by G-d. Then it gives a cryptic explanation made to be something that humans can understand. The true mechanism of the creation of the world is evidently very complicated. The Torah is not a science book and it never was a science book. It was made to guide the lives of the people who received it. ?Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

Organized? Explain why there are hundreds of Christian denominations all claiming to be the "right" one, all different but using the same set of scriptural books, The Bible. All of them base their dogma on ancient writings. Oh! So humans are stupid since they are given a childish story of creation, instead of what really occured. Well that's refreshing to hear. Unfortunately many people think it is.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

I would expect more from a logical person such as yourself. Where is the evidence of your entire story? There is none. What part of Documentary "Hypothesis" do you not understand. The Jewish people claim a tradition that dates back 4000 years or more. What evidence do you have that will contradict this tradition? NOTHING You are formulating information from ignorance. Please realize what you are doing. Also, I have already answered the OP. The Jews and the Muslims are referring to the same G-d. They are only arguing about the prophesy of the founder of Islam. The Jews consider this man to be a false prophet, with all of the motives that I have described in other posts. The Muslims think that G-d changed his mind and gave a whole new set of rules through another prophet. This is the extent of the argument over these religions. They may have also tried to change what was written in the Torah. However let me repeat myself, every single Torah scroll in use today is identical in every single way, with the exception of one letter. This letter change is the difference between an aleph and a hay. Both of these letters make the same sound in the particular context, and the translation of the word is not changed in any way.

HI!!!!!It was me, Deftil, that said the quote that was mistakenly attributed to Agobot, then to Mylakovich, and then correctly to me.Clarification on the meaning and the literal accuracy of the quote in question is discussed in the 4 posts that follow the one I made containing that quote, and those posts begin with Message 15.

You will not find a single Bible in all of these denominations. The Christians have changed the text many times. Do you remember how changes started. Kings did not like the church so they decided to make there own form of the religion. Also, you agree that the beliefs are all random, but the religion was founded by one liar. Another liar took over after his . And yet another took over after that. They all claimed to have seen a resurrection of the liar. They obviously received fame for this. There names are all known of today. The compiler of the original Torah would still remain unknown according to conspiracy theorists. I already said that the Torah is not a science book and G-d did not wish to give an in depth explanation of how the universe was created. First of all, there would be no reason to do this. Second of all, suppose the entire science of physics was written in the Torah, who would understand it. NOBODY So what would be the point. All G-d was doing was explaining that He created the world. The specifics would have not been comprehended in that time anyway. Just as a side note, suppose the Torah would write The Big Bang Theory, Would humans name it the Big Bang Theory? Also, do you think that humans are done explaining the creation of the Universe. There is still more to be explained. If G-d would write the current Standard inside the Torah, it would only be good until new theory comes out. Also, What would scientists do with their lives if G-d explained everything. G-d is nice enough to let the scientists have the fun and challenge of exploration. This was particularly nice of G-d. Think about it that way.

Thanks for the clarification. I have no problem with the first part of the sentence. The last part, as you said, was an exaggeration and that is the part I took issue with.

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I would expect more from a logical person such as yourself. Where is the evidence of your entire story? There is none. What part of Documentary "Hypothesis" do you not understand. The Jewish people claim a tradition that dates back 4000 years or more. What evidence do you have that will contradict this tradition?

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Where is the evidence that this "tradition" is anything more than a fabrication ?As I have pointed out the book of Judges suggests there was no such tradition.The Exodus is not only implausible as written, it cannot be reliably linked with history or archaeology.The historical markers in the text of Exodus are anachronistic, from a time well after the supposed events, indicating that the story was written long after the events, and there are other indications too.The evidence indicates that the story was written long after events and there is no evidence that the tradition is based on anything other than the story. And there is certainly good reason to believe that the story has been greatly exaggerated in other respects.So we have no reason to believe that "tradition" any more than we have to believe the story in the Torah.It is far more likely that the story developed gradually and has little connection to historical fact, just as Judaism gradually grew out of being just another Canaanite religion.

Many Rabbis translate 'eleph' in different ways, and for very good reasons.To make the Bible claim that 600 000 man of fighting age left Egypt makes the Bible historically inaccurate.Any luck with the name of the prophet who wrote the Book of Judges?

I love how you make this claim but then leave out "with the exception of my choosen religion. It is the only true one." you would think with 600,000 people witnessing the event we would have additional storys collaberating it. Other people would want to record their version of what happened. Yet we only have one record and it is the only one that says such an event occured. I see no difference from your liar and any other liar. Edited by rueh, : No reason given.Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

Where is the evidence that your version has not been changed many times.