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Author Topic:   A thought on Intelligence behind Design
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 98 of 261 (44155)
06-25-2003 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by MrHambre
06-25-2003 12:03 AM


Re: Intelligence
quote:
The above post is a computer-generated string of meaningless characters whose appearance is that of a designed communication emanating from intelligence but is actually the result of unguided mechanistic processes. Proof if you need it.
Interesting... do elaborate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by MrHambre, posted 06-25-2003 12:03 AM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Brad McFall, posted 06-25-2003 6:52 PM zephyr has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 107 of 261 (44191)
06-25-2003 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by MrHambre
06-25-2003 3:54 PM


Re: Intelligence, not just Design
quote:
It's extremely convenient that you should limit IC to structures too small to fossilize and therefore extremely difficult to establish any sort of developmental pathway in detail.
Extremely convenient. It's awfully fertile ground for an argument from ignorance. I'm a fairly intelligent person and I have a hard time following technical discussions in that area. Even so, I knew enough to lose interest in Behe's book when he began building them up as a refutation of unguided evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by MrHambre, posted 06-25-2003 3:54 PM MrHambre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by MrHambre, posted 06-25-2003 4:57 PM zephyr has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 201 of 261 (47895)
07-29-2003 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Barryven
07-29-2003 12:17 PM


Re: Intelligent design
quote:
Human beings, at some point in history, likely discovered how animals that burned to death in fires were good to eat - most likely an accidental discovery. Humans discovered that the natural gas coming from the earth was flammable, also probably by accident. Would that mean that intelligent design is absent from the gas range?
You'd have to equate human design with divine intelligent design for this chain of reasoning to lead to any conclusions about the natural world being designed. How can that be done?
quote:
Is the designing intelligence behind the evolution of the gas stove a product of the evolution of life?
Why not? What is intelligence? For us, it seems to be a survival adaptation that serves us well. Assuming more is just a pat on the back for humanity without much factual basis.
quote:
Is it likely that the emergence of a designing intelligence in life happened accidently? Is the gas range it's final and ultimate creative act in response to the accidental discovery that cooked food is good?
I'm not sure I follow. In what context are you setting up the gas range as a "final and ultimate creative act?" We've been making fires for thousands of years. Lately we've found a more convenient way to do so. All species do things like that, but we do it more often through the changing of habits and ideas instead of physical traits.
quote:
How could any thinking human being come to the absolute conclussion that design is absent from evolution as many scientists seem to do?
Not all scientists do, and not all feel the need to. The problem is those who assume design, who do research with the end goal of finding evidence thereof, simply to justify their emotional need for a creator god. I don't assume absence of design. I assume that I can understand the world by observing and inferring, and by learning from others who do the same. If there were anyone who presented arguments for design, without having a pre-existing emotional requirement for their work to lead them to that point of view, I would find that compelling, and would take their work seriously. I just haven't ever heard of such a person.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Barryven, posted 07-29-2003 12:17 PM Barryven has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Barryven, posted 07-31-2003 12:58 PM zephyr has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 207 of 261 (48225)
07-31-2003 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Barryven
07-31-2003 12:58 PM


Re: Intelligent design
quote:
I agree with this statement. I also feel that there is a significant element in the scientific community who, because of the efforts of those with a "design" agenda, take an oppositional position based on an emotional requirement to refute.
What I find objectionable is that many scientists react to anyone who presents the possibility that there may be more than one way to understand the relationship of things..such as the emergence of human intelligence and the instinct to create using reproduction and natural selection of designing ideas could be a possible expression of universal designing presence.. means that I have taken a position and am insisting that this is how I prove the existence of God..
I'm resisting the urge to scream "but they started it!"
Seriously though, I think that's a good perspective; and, like Nosy said, we're all human. It's hard for anyone not to get emotionally attached to their ideas, however rational and fact-based they may be. I won't claim that I'm as open-minded and objective as the ideal position I described. I simply hold it as a high virtue to which I aspire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Barryven, posted 07-31-2003 12:58 PM Barryven has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Warren, posted 07-31-2003 5:32 PM zephyr has not replied

  
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