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Author Topic:   IS There only one god?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 11 of 20 (47800)
07-28-2003 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peter
07-28-2003 6:59 AM


Peter writes:
Doesn't that just mean 'I am the Boss God' rather than
'I am the only God'?
This is just a sampling of things to come at my website:
"Thou shalt not revile the gods" Exodus 22:28
"Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord" Psalm 86:8
"the LORD ... is to be feared above all gods" Psalm 96:4
"worship him all ye gods" Psalm 97:7
This subject gets very interesting and, strangely enough, is one of the least understood by fundies; right up there with what the universe is made of: Primal Elements
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peter, posted 07-28-2003 6:59 AM Peter has seen this message but not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 14 of 20 (47816)
07-29-2003 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by THEONE
07-29-2003 1:17 AM


Baal simply means "Master" in hebrew and has nothing to do with God.
Baal is the untranslated form and it often appears that way. It is translated in a variety of ways. These are a few of them; followed by the number of times they are rendered as such in the King James Version:
wife 1
married 1
married wife 1
lord 2
be married 2
be husband 3
marry 4
master 5
husband 11
owner 14
man 26
Baal was, once upon a time, the storm god of Canaan. Use of the word apparently evolved over time. There is evidence that Yahweh was once referred to as Baal, Hosea 2:16; and Hebrew women referred to their husbands as baal, a term of respect (see above).
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by THEONE, posted 07-29-2003 1:17 AM THEONE has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by THEONE, posted 07-29-2003 3:02 AM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 16 of 20 (47908)
07-29-2003 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by THEONE
07-29-2003 3:02 AM


TheOne writes:
The god of Caanan was Baali Looks like hebrew word Baal but not quite the same.
You didn't even read the reference did you?
Baali means "my baal." Not quite the same, yes. More astounding to the average Christian? Yes.
As far as different translation of word Baal. You are right, just like any hebrew word it has multiple meanings. Most common use of which is Master. Regardless of KJV translation methods.
!!! Can you back up these outlandish assertions?
A. - Many Hebrew words have only one meaning. Sometimes it takes a number of different English words to make sense of them in a different contexts.
B. - I have just demonstrated that the most common translation of baal is the word "man." It does, of course, often appear untranslated in which cases it is traditionally understood as a "false god;" except when used in many place names, where it is understood to mean "lord.": Baal Berith (lord of the covenant); Baal Hermon (lord of Hermon); etc. These two are obvious references to Jehovah.
The passage I cited earlier, Hosea 2:16, indicates that Jehovah wants them to someday quit calling him "my baal" (baali) and start calling him "my husband" (ishi).
My source. Young's Analytical Concordanc to the Bible.
What is your source?
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by THEONE, posted 07-29-2003 3:02 AM THEONE has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by THEONE, posted 07-30-2003 5:46 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 18 of 20 (48100)
07-30-2003 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by THEONE
07-30-2003 5:46 PM


I see that you have been studying. This is good.
I like what you have referenced.
quote:
Ishi and Baali can both mean "my husband", but with different connotations. Ishi, literally, "my man", implies a relationship based on love; but Balli, literally, "my master", can also refer to a relationship based on fear of a superior.
There's one opinion to enter into your mental data base. And, except for what may be perceived as indirectly suggesting a limit on how baal may be understood, I have no problem with it. But translating baal as Master in every case may not be a good idea.
Here's just one example of a place where rendering baal as Master might not work too well: "... the woman ... she is a man's wife [baal]" Genesis 20:3. On second thought, it would be kinda cute to give it Master in this case.
if you look at Original Hebrew Scrolls, all of this is actually in Hosea 2:18 not in 2:16.
Uh oh. Now your slip is showing. There are no "original" Hebrew scrolls of any biblical book, including Hosea. And the original scrolls would have had neither the chapter and verse designations nor the Masoretic pronunciation marks.
But when you have your own way of translation (in this case KJV) alot can get changed or twisted...
My own way? Do you mean the KJV's own way? At any rate I have compared other versions and your source does not appear to disagree with any of them.
Our discussion, however, began with your assertion that:
A. - Baal can only be translated as Master, and
B. - Baali is not a Hebrew word.
I believe you understand this more fully now.
The Living Bible renders baali "My Master." which I am sure would please you. But then, in the footnote it reads, Literally, "my Baal," meaning "my Lord," but this was a tainted word because applied to idols, so it will no longer be used in referene to the true God.
Which, evidently, it was at that time.
Well, there's one more opinion to enter into your data base. Hope it doesn't mess up your theory too much.
Thank you for your response.
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by THEONE, posted 07-30-2003 5:46 PM THEONE has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by THEONE, posted 07-31-2003 6:15 AM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 20 of 20 (48226)
07-31-2003 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by THEONE
07-31-2003 6:15 AM


Interesting exegesis. The flesh of your post is rather nice, but the bones leave something to be desired. In the interest of time and space, I will address only the bones.
Our exchange began when you challenged a statement from Jake:
Jake22 writes:
... Baal is a "god" of the OT. He is considered a deity
To which you replied:
TheOne writes:
Baal simply means "Master" in hebrew and has nothing to do with God.
And then:
TheOne writes:
The god of Caanan was Baali. Looks like hebrew word Baal but not quite the same.
And then you attempt to deny your statement:
TheOne writes:
I said Baali was not the same as Hebrew word Baal.
And:
TheOne writes:
... just like any hebrew word it has multiple meanings.
Then you complain that I am twisting things:
TheOne writes:
... please, don't twist things.
At first you say Baal has nothing to do with God, and then you claim he is a deity.
At first you say Baal simply means ‘master,’ and then you say it has multiple meanings.
Who is twisting things?
Is your perception evolving in step with your argument?
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by THEONE, posted 07-31-2003 6:15 AM THEONE has not replied

  
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