Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,860 Year: 4,117/9,624 Month: 988/974 Week: 315/286 Day: 36/40 Hour: 2/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Can God create another God?
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 181 of 224 (482475)
09-16-2008 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:11 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Straggler writes:
Oh God
Very interesting
Now can you explain how complex will give free will. This one I want to hear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:11 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:39 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 182 of 224 (482477)
09-16-2008 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 7:32 PM


Re: Good and Evil
That is correct. I know what many of your responses will be and I will post refutations as they come.
Really? What will my first one be then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:32 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:44 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 183 of 224 (482478)
09-16-2008 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 7:35 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Very interesting
Now can you explain how complex will give free will. This one I want to hear.
Well what object, mineral, vegetable or animal can you give as an example of something, that in your opinion, does not have freewill?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:35 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:45 PM Straggler has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 184 of 224 (482479)
09-16-2008 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:13 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Just a side question: Why do you think such a complicated world was created with such simple explanations? Many people acknowledge the complexity of the world, but expect the religious aspect behind the creation to be extremely simple. This makes no sense. If you believe that G-d created this complicated world, you would think that a religion that comes along with the world would be very complex as well. Why do you then expect very simple answers to all of your questions? This is why I laughed so hard when Bluejay said religions are for people that don't want to use the brain. A religion that is correct about the purpose of this world must be at least as complicated as the world itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:13 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:53 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 185 of 224 (482480)
09-16-2008 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:38 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Uh how does G-d kill if humans can't? Was I right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:38 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:55 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 186 of 224 (482482)
09-16-2008 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:39 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Nothing has free will other than a human being.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:39 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:59 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 187 of 224 (482483)
09-16-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 7:42 PM


Re: Good and Evil
I have no idea what this has to do with the topic or my questions but - Science would suggest that life the universe and everything was derived from simplicity and that complexity has evolved from simple beginnings. In a very very very broad nutshell.
We now have 3 seperate (if related) lines of questioning in one thread. Lets filter and condense.....?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:42 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:33 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 188 of 224 (482484)
09-16-2008 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 7:44 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Uh how does G-d kill if humans can't? Was I right?
Not really but we can start there if it makes you happy. So what does the Torah say specifically about killing? If anything?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:44 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:11 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 189 of 224 (482485)
09-16-2008 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 7:45 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Nothing has free will other than a human being.
Really. Interesting. So are you saying that all other matter (animal, mineral or vegetable) should behave equally predictably and deterministically?
If not what makes the behaviour of some things more difficult (even impossible!!) to predict than others?
Planetary orbits Vs chimpanzee behaviour for example?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 7:45 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:28 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 190 of 224 (482490)
09-16-2008 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:55 PM


Re: Good and Evil
If you read Genesis carefully you will see that G-d warns Adam not to eat from the "tree of knowledge" and says that on the day that he eats from it he will die. But guess what, Adam lives on. How are these apparently contradictory accounts resolved. The answer is that Adam has caused Mortality to enter the creation by eating from the tree. By disobeying the commandments, Adam was the first one to bring evil into the world. The world is gravely affected by sins. The sins themselves actually cause the apparent evil in the world. This is easily seen by some of the sins. The Torah says not to kill another human. It is obvious how this sin has an impact on the world. The evil is clear. Some other sins may not have such easily seen effects. However, they are all there inside the creation.
Some atheists have trouble resolving contradictions in the Torah. They feel that a contradiction indicates falsehood of the text. However, this is nonsense if the contradiction is so blatant that even a fool would not have left it there, let alone the crafty people that are trying to start a religion. Also, since I have told you that the world is very complicated, and religion should be no less complicated , there is a fine line between interpretations and apologetics.
Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:55 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 8:23 PM Open MInd has replied
 Message 205 by Blue Jay, posted 09-17-2008 4:32 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 191 of 224 (482492)
09-16-2008 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 8:11 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Uh how does G-d kill if humans can't? Was I right?
Not really but we can start there if it makes you happy. So what does the Torah say specifically about killing? If anything?
So how about answering the question then?
If you read Genesis carefully you will see that G-d warns Adam not to eat from the "tree of knowledge" and says that on the day that he eats from it he will die.
Is that a lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:11 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:25 PM Straggler has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 192 of 224 (482493)
09-16-2008 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Straggler
09-16-2008 8:23 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Straggler writes:
Is that a lie?
NO! Did you read my full post? On the day that Adam ate from the tree he was given . If not for this sin he would have lived forever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 8:23 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 8:29 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 193 of 224 (482495)
09-16-2008 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:59 PM


Re: Good and Evil
The amount of forces acting on the chimpanzee is enormous compared with that of planets. Furthermore, humans have an influence on chimpanzee behavior. Since humans have free will, you cannot predict the behavior of a chimpanzee without knowing all the human interactions with it.
Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:59 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 194 of 224 (482496)
09-16-2008 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Open MInd
09-16-2008 8:25 PM


Re: Good and Evil
Now you know the Torah/Bible/Whatever better than me but....
You said
If you read Genesis carefully you will see that G-d warns Adam not to eat from the "tree of knowledge" and says that on the day that he eats from it he will die.
"on the day that he eats from it"..........?
NO! Did you read my full post? On the day that Adam ate from the tree he was given . If not for this sin he would have lived forever.
So did he die on that fateful day or not?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:25 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:37 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 197 by Open MInd, posted 09-16-2008 8:40 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 195 of 224 (482497)
09-16-2008 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:53 PM


Re: Good and Evil
I am giving the assumption that G-d created the world. Assuming this, G-d created all of the complexity as well, or he at least guided the complexity as it formed by initiating the world in a way that would lead to this complexity. I am pointing out how people are not being rational by assuming that a very very simple religion should explain a very very complex world. Again, I am assuming that G-d created this world and the religion behind it. I assume that the religion would be at least as complex as the world because they would both be created by the same Being.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:53 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024