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Author Topic:   Science in church?
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 1 of 35 (482505)
09-16-2008 9:04 PM


It’s been a long while since I logged in to talk and or debate. I found it more interesting to just sit back in read creationist ideas rather then pointlessly debate them. Because we all know its dam near impossible to change someone’s view once there set on it.
Sorry back to the topic. I have a very simple question mainly for the creationist, others can jump on the band wagon if they like. If "science classes" have to teach religious ideas such as ID or creationism, then shouldn't churches have to whip out the grade science books and start preaching science? I say this because I have read many comments from creationist calling science a religion or atheism a religion. If this is true and you guys want to mix it up then here are your options.
1) Leave science in the science class, and Philosophy in the church / religious education classes
2) Mix science and religion in the science classes, and mix Philosophy and science in the church / religious education classes.
Option 2) seems silly to me because you would end up just confusing the students about what to believe. I think best option for all is option 1). Now some may say there’s an option 3)
3) Mix science and religion in the science classes, and make the churches happy.
Option 3) just seems unfair for the entire science community; after all we want a happy medium for both sides.
So I choose option 1), I would like to see what rest of you believe. Now I don't want to see evidence for this or that; just stick to what I've asked and tell me why.

  
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 4 of 35 (482556)
09-17-2008 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by obvious Child
09-17-2008 12:04 AM


That’s not what I’m getting at, I understand some may use some aspects of science to explain some aspects of there religion. But if you or anyone else has missed the point, I’m try rephrasing it. If science classes suddenly have to teach creationism, shouldn't churches / philosophy classes have to teach evolution or something similar? They are calling for a fair representation of creation in the science classes; therefore science should have fair representation in churches / philosophy classes.
So coming back which Option do you think our education systems should follow?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by obvious Child, posted 09-17-2008 12:04 AM obvious Child has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 12:57 AM Logic has replied
 Message 10 by ICANT, posted 09-17-2008 1:31 AM Logic has not replied
 Message 13 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-17-2008 2:13 AM Logic has not replied

  
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 6 of 35 (482560)
09-17-2008 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by New Cat's Eye
09-17-2008 12:57 AM


So im assuming you go with option 1) Leave science and religion seperate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 12:57 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:13 AM Logic has replied

  
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 8 of 35 (482570)
09-17-2008 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by New Cat's Eye
09-17-2008 1:13 AM


Way make an ass of myself? I asked a simple question even gave out clear points of how to answer the questions. I don't care if your religious or not, what I want to know is DO YOU WANT science class rooms to teach RELIGOUS ideas such as ID? If that is the case then shouldn't Churches teach Science ideas such as evolution? I don't care if you personally like to mix your to beliefs. I want to know yours, and others stance on the practical idea of physically mixing the classes / congregations. I’m not sure if I can make this any clearer but so far I have only obtained to vague responses dodging the topic.
If you don’t want to see science taught in church then say “Option 1”
If you want to see science taught in church and religion in science class then say “Option 2”
If you want religion only to be taught in science class rooms, but not visa-versa then say “Option 3”
Don’t dodge the topic; if you don’t want to answer then don’t reply

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:13 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:31 AM Logic has not replied

  
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 11 of 35 (482582)
09-17-2008 1:45 AM


I'm not sure if my posts have been that hard to read but in my mind
Creationism = ID = Belief in god, that created everything. Thus we are the result of his intelligent design
Evolution = Change over time through natural mechanisms
Now I've read many threads of people saying ID(creationism) should be taught in science classes, because of the bias towards Evolution ruling the science class room is unfair towards other theories. I proposed that if Creationism should be taught in science class rooms should evolution thus be taught in churches. If not then we should leave the two seperate from eachother.
This will be my last post for the day I’ll be back tomorrow sorry
Edited by Logic, : Impossible to read sentence fixed

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:54 AM Logic has replied

  
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 16 of 35 (482754)
09-17-2008 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by New Cat's Eye
09-17-2008 1:54 AM


And what say you of the belief that god creating species via change over time through natural mechanisms?
This belief doesn’t affect modern science in anyway unlike the belief that everything suddenly appeared. So really this theory can work fine with evolution its basically just slapping a "God helped it" label on. This doesn’t affect the teaching of evolution in anyway.
Do you really believe that this "unfairness" to other theories is evidence enough of them being taught?
I personally would like to keep the two ideas / theories in their respective fields. Leave creationism in church and evolution in science lab. However, what I’m saying is if suddenly for some reason unknown, creationism gets into the science rooms shouldn't evolution also then get into the church congregations.
Evolution should be taught in churches. Controversly, creationism should not be taught in science classrooms because science is held to a higher standard, like I said.
I agree fully, all I want to know is if everyone else on this bored agrees
The churches are not held to the same standard as science. We have this little thing called "faith" that science doesn't have. So, no, they should not be held to the same standar.
I'm talking about the "creationism science" not the actual belief in god. If creationism science was to infiltrate the science classes like they are so trying to do. Then evolution should infiltrate the churches just to keep a happy medium.
I hope you had a good night.
I had a terrible night, couldn't sleep for some reason and woke with headache

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:54 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by johnfolton, posted 09-19-2008 11:41 AM Logic has not replied
 Message 20 by Blue Jay, posted 09-19-2008 2:13 PM Logic has replied

  
Logic
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 31 of 35 (483379)
09-21-2008 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Blue Jay
09-19-2008 2:13 PM


Thank you for your comment Bluejay you seem to at least held back the urge to not go off topic.
Religion has always enjoyed all sorts of immunities, at least in the USA. They are in the unique position of being shielded from attacks from anywhere while also being allowed to meddle in anybody else's affairs
Here lies the problem =( I know it will never happen but wouldn't it be good if all these faith based sciences were forced to undergo extended testing and per-review.
So I'm guess you would like to see the two ID / creationism and science left separate? So far no-one seems to have given me a definite stance on the subject, there just given thoughts. Which is ok of course but if the system is actually going to take sides people need to express what they actually beleive.
Some may wonder why im so intrested in this subject being from Australia and all, well its quite simple our trends usually start to follow american trends. And in recent years I have seen a few of these creation / science magazines floating around.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Blue Jay, posted 09-19-2008 2:13 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
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