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Author Topic:   A Few Questions For Creationists
onifre
Member (Idle past 2971 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 8 of 86 (481413)
09-10-2008 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
09-10-2008 6:05 PM


Re: A bried opinion
mike the wiz writes:
my brief creo opinion is that the specifics are, while to some degree important, secondary to belief in God.
Way to evade having to answer any of the questions and not be bound to any 1 particular theory of creationism.
*Rodibidably your intentions are great by trying to get answers but, I suspect that you'll get this type of response,(like mike the wiz's), which is to try and show the supposed problems with evolution from creo websites rather than get a straight answer on their position.
Typical response:
mike the wiz writes:
but when you look into the issue, you'll find that just as many questions can be fired back,
Instead of stating your position mike, as was asked by the OP, you choose to answer with "Well evolution has problems too", which is a total evation of what was asked.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 09-10-2008 6:05 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Rodibidably, posted 09-10-2008 8:38 PM onifre has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2971 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 81 of 86 (483202)
09-20-2008 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by armylngst
09-20-2008 12:22 PM


Hi armylngst, and welcome to EvC forum,
armylngst writes:
The fact that the scientist had to go get a huge fan from NASA, and a sprinkler from home depot in order to create the winds and "rain" necessary for her experiments simply shows that the conditions of the experiment (high wind and "rain" in this case) do not just happen.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. What it clearly shows is that to replicate a natural phenomena we(humans) need intelligence. Wind and high rain do just happen, to recreate them on command would require an intelligent being to access the phenomenon and determine what necessary tools, equipment etc. are needed.
Did an intelligence cause the hurricane? I would say, yes, though perhaps not directly (laws of nature).
So if your intelligent 'being'(or God) simply sets in motion the laws of nature, then it seems like you have no proof of a God, you just have proof that natural laws exist. You personally invoke God as the responsible source of the laws but, you are not determining that based off of evidence, you are basing it off of faith in God. And again, your personal faith in Gods existance is not proof for God.
Also note that it would be nice if you could define which laws of nature you are talking about. The 'laws of nature' on this planet mostly revolve around the size and mass of this planet that places it a this precise distance from it's host star. Are you saying that God placed this planet specifically at this distance from the Sun for the meer purpose of assigning 'laws of nature'?
would the fact of "God" creating the natural laws that governed hurricane Ike mean that he would have to be directly involved in hurricane Ike? No. Does it mean that he was not involved? No.
First, it is not a fact that God created any laws, it is a belief based on faith. However, your answer here needs more clarity. Was He/She responsable or not? The way you answered seems more like an evasion of having to pick a side. Sure you can say that X God created the laws that govern this planet, you could also say that an invisible unicorn did it, or a team of faries, what you must keep in mind though is that you need to provide evidence that helps solidify your argument, and not just present it as a faith based opinion...this is a science thread after all.
Enjoy...

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by armylngst, posted 09-20-2008 12:22 PM armylngst has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2971 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 82 of 86 (483208)
09-20-2008 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by dunsapy
09-20-2008 5:13 PM


dunsapy writes:
Science does not know exactly what the atmosphere was like before life.
Scientist study the evidence of the pre-biotic Earth and then determine the conditions based off of that evidence. Are you suggesting that they are flawed in their abilities as scientist to do their job?
It does not know, the soil conditions before life.
See above reply...
It does not know what materials were around before life.
See first reply...
Now if science wants to say the atmosphere was like the the soil was like this
This is a loaded statement. You said if scientist 'want to say'. This is obviously untrue. Scientist don't want to say anything, they review the evidence and determine what conditions where like based off of that evidnce. That is the ONLY way it can be determied. What you seem to be implying, basically, is that scientist don't know how to do their job properly and are just speculating. Is that what you're implying?
They have only shown that it takes intelligence to make life.
I think we can all agree that to replicate life's origins, since you first need to understand what life is, you need intelligence. The kind that humans show. But that is irrelevant. We know life came into existance. We find that 4 billion years ago no life exists, then we find that 3.5 billion years ago life exists. We determine based off of that evidence that something took place within that time frame. It is suggested that the chemical compounds that were present in the Earth at that time reacted with one another to created the first living organisms. And, to the best of sciences' abilities, it is trying to replicate it. What, from that, are you suggesting that points to the need for an intelligent agent to intervene? And how did you determine that the intelligent agent is needed?
Remember, we are trying to replicate life based off of a model of an already ready existing organism. That does take intelligence. Before life existed there was model for life. It is a collection of chemical compounds that form what we call life. There was no goal for life, therefore no intelligence is required.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by dunsapy, posted 09-20-2008 5:13 PM dunsapy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by dunsapy, posted 09-21-2008 12:59 AM onifre has not replied

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