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Author Topic:   A Few Questions For Creationists
dunsapy
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 80 of 86 (483198)
09-20-2008 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Adminnemooseus
09-20-2008 5:06 PM


Re: Your topic has been promoted.
who is bluejay?
OK I guess it still can be read by anyone though. So that's OK.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-20-2008 5:06 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

dunsapy
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 84 of 86 (483242)
09-21-2008 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by onifre
09-20-2008 6:16 PM


This is a loaded statement. You said if scientist 'want to say'. This is obviously untrue. Scientist don't want to say anything, they review the evidence and determine what conditions where like based off of that evidnce. That is the ONLY way it can be determied. What you seem to be implying, basically, is that scientist don't know how to do their job properly and are just speculating. Is that what you're implying?
Science doesn't have a prehistoric earth to test. It is an earth filled with life, and what all of that can do to the atmosphere, to the soil etc. We now have pollution everywhere, we have chemicals fashioned by man, we have nuclear contamination, acid rain, ozone depletion etc etc. The best science can do is guess.
It is suggested that the chemical compounds that were present in the Earth at that time reacted with one another to created the first living organisms. And, to the best of sciences' abilities, it is trying to replicate it. What, from that, are you suggesting that points to the need for an intelligent agent to intervene? And how did you determine that the intelligent agent is needed?
It is suggested,... is not science, it is only a suggestion. It is a guess.
And to best of science abilities,... does not sound convincing, that they could replicate life as it is supposed to happen in the beginning. So far they have not done it.
Remember, we are trying to replicate life based off of a model of an already ready existing organism. That does take intelligence. Before life existed there was model for life. It is a collection of chemical compounds that form what we call life. There was no goal for life, therefore no intelligence is required.
This already exciting organism, could have been created. Science can not say other wise. Maybe a creator did the same experiment with the chemicals on earth, just the way scientists want to do it today. But so far is unable. That would mean, a much more capable intelligence then ,.. then that of today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by onifre, posted 09-20-2008 6:16 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-21-2008 1:17 AM dunsapy has not replied

dunsapy
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 86 of 86 (483245)
09-21-2008 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Vacate
09-20-2008 9:16 PM


Right. That's why I said "The point is to find a plausible route that may have taken place to gradually become what we currently define as life."
So I hope that is taken care of.
That is OK to try to find it, I understand that. But to do it in an experiment, by scientists, only shows ( if they ever do it) that it could be done with intelligence. It does not show that it could happen by itself. They would have to have some place that it happened , that they had nothing to do with, to show that it came on it's own. .
They don't know exactly, but with evidence that has been found I am confident they are on the right track. Once again however they are not trying to "mix some material around", that's just a strawman at this point. I would suggest you do some more reading before making such a conclusion.
There are many chemicals on this earth, are they using the toxic ones, as well as the ones that help to support life, in their experiments?
Dunsapy wrote
They have only shown that it takes intelligence to make life. Assuming they were successful .
Thats quite the leap now that you have several analogies to work with. You are saying that modeling a river, or a hurricane, or migrating birds, or the movement of tectonic plates means that all these things are intelligent? If something can be modeled the subject of the model is intelligent?
If you are saying that modeling a river or a hurricane, or migrating birds etc. in a computer model, does take intelligence. I agree with that. other wise I did not get what you are saying here.
It appears that you, as with armylngst in message 76, are simply stacking the deck to trump up your preconceived notions. You are insisting that if something happens and someone tries to see how it happened then that something by definition must have been intelligently created. Therefore as long as there is intelligence to be curious there must have been intelligence to create the focus of all curiousity. Lets face it, with a stance like that your awful close to the "because I said so" defense.
You totally missed the point here. I said if science does it with experiment, that shows that science could do it with experiment. That has nothing to do with what happened in the past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Vacate, posted 09-20-2008 9:16 PM Vacate has not replied

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