How old are you?

Good point! grrr..... I too demand to be included!------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

"When I get to the point where I'm reminiscing about tinfoil drives, cheap candy bars, child labor and vaudeville (or on my sixty-eighth birthday, whichever comes first), I hereby demand that you come to my house and hang me from a fucking sycamore."Is that a dangling proposition?

At 25 years younger than Buz, count me in the "young'n's" camp.------------------
Asgara "An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

Which reminds me: John, you're an OK guy, did you know that?

For those that are interested, a summary;

::                  : 24
Agent Uranium [GPC]  : 27
Andya Primanda       : 22
Asgara               : 43
Brian Johnston       : 39
buzsaw               : 68
compmage             : 26
Conspirator          : 18
Coragyps             : 55
crashfrog            : old enough to know better
Dan Carroll          : 25
Gzus                 : 18
Mammuthus            : 35
mark24               : 36
minnemooseus         : 46
MrHambre             : 37 (39?)
NosyNed              : older than granite
Percipient           : old enough to be bionic
Peter                : 36
Quetzal              : older than dirt
roxrkool             : 35
schrafinator         : 35
SLPx                 : 37
TrueCreation         : old enough to remember that high school sucks
Wounded King         : 26
zephyr               : 25

I haven't done this in a while but excluding TC, Quetzal, Percipient, NosyNed, and crashfrog, and taking MrHambre's age at 37; that makes the average 33.95 and the mean 35 (9, 9 split with 3 on 35).------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy[This message has been edited by compmage, 08-01-2003]

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Is that a dangling proposition?

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*screams*...I about fell out of my chair at that one. Very nice... very nice.

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....that makes the average 33.95 and the mean 35 (9, 9 split with 3 on 35).

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Shouldn't that say the "median" is 35?

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You are downright scary sometimes.

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Well, Percy, you see, I've "read the back of the book," as the song goes and it looks like the wrath days we read about are beginning to appear on the horizon. But then afterwords, comes the King and the Kingdom.

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Dammit! I think I'm the oldest here too.

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Aw c'mon, Ned. Fes up on your age. Just think of all the respect you get by bein old.

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Well, Percy, you see, I've "read the back of the book," as the song goes and it looks like the wrath days we read about are beginning to appear on the horizon.

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But then afterwords, comes the King and the Kingdom.

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Let's see, Christians have been saying, "The end is nigh" for, oh, I don't know...EVER! Every time there is a war you Christians get so gleeful; you get downright drunk with ecstacy if people are killing each other in the Middle East and Israel.Seems like you are just another Chicken Little crying, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"Now, are you going to admit that the past 40 or 50 years had just as much ugliness in it as "wholesome and clean" fun?

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Let's see, Christians have been saying, "The end is nigh" for, oh, I don't know...EVER! Every time there is a war you Christians get so gleeful; you get downright drunk with ecstacy if people are killing each other in the Middle East and Israel.

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1. The doctrine pretribulation imminent rapture[/i] espoused by the majority of modern day evangelical circles has, imo, hurt the cause for truth concerning end time prophecy. The doctrine of an imminent rapture, i.e. that the gathering up of the Christians into heaven has always been imminent, is not consistent with what Jesus, the apostles and the prophets taught. This doctrine began in the early 19th century and has grown to become the prevailing interpretation. According to the prophecies, there are still some things to come before that rapture/resurrection, though it is undeniable that it is relatively near, the advancement of change increasing ever so rapidly in these times. Please don't implicate all Christians in one charge. That's neither honest nor fair, is it?2. Your charge that Christians are rejoicing and estatic about war is false Christophobic hatespeak. 60 million died at the hands of their own athiest communist governments last century. A large percentage of the victims of these were Christians as is the case in our century in nations where Islam is consolidating its grip on nations such as Sudan and Indonesia. Nobody wants war. Islamics destroyed our major financial center on 9/11, crippling our economy and killing our citizens. In response we went after Afganistan and Iraq to send the message loud and clear that a price would be paid for terrorism on this scale. Christians as well as the majority of secularists in America supported the responses. So where is your support for this outrageous falsehood. (Where are Percy's admonitions when his ideological friends post these whoppers??)

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Now, are you going to admit that the past 40 or 50 years had just as much ugliness in it as "wholesome and clean" fun?

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I didn't say there was no ungliness. What I said clearly is that there's a moral decline, rise in crime and disintegration of the home.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-02-2003]

Hey, I'm one of the old guys! I had no idea we were so young here.42 for me.Sorry for getting the thread back on topic ;-).My friends tell me my mid-life crisis was losing 40 pounds and going back to running a couple years ago. It wasn't too bad. I told a 55-year old friend that I planned to die in a high speed motorcycle crash at 95. He replied that he agreed--a motorcycle would hit me as I crossed the street in my wheelchair. :-)I've never even driven a motorcycle. That will have to wait for my second mid-life crisis.I did, however, do a Samoan fire knife dance last year with a sharp, burning machete along with about five other "around 40" guys who had never twirled anything before either. In practice I cut my hand once (dull side of the machete, fortunately, trying an extra spin in the air), burned my hand once, had a loose piece of bailing wire rip open a big vein in my forearm (perfect shot on the vein), and separated my shoulder doing a somersault.But the dance was a big hit. None of the other guys even cut themselves. Sigh...[edited for a confusing spelling mistake][This message has been edited by truthlover, 08-02-2003]

just to clear something up..
the economy was fucked up before 9/11. the Moslems had nothing to do with the economy of this country.
the war that we are at is costing us more financially and also on personal loss. the US soldier count is piling up.

buzsaw writes:

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The doctrine of an imminent rapture, i.e. that the gathering up of the Christians into heaven has always been imminent, is not consistent with what Jesus, the apostles and the prophets taught.

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Incorrect. The exact opposite was true. The end of the world was supposed to happen Real Soon Now according to Jesus and the rest of the lot who wrote the Bible:Matthew 16:28, 23:36, 24:34, 26:64
Mark 9:1, 13:30, 14:62
Luke 9:27, 21:32
John 21:22
Philippians 4:5
1 Thessalonians 4:17, 5:23
Hebrews 1:2, 10:37
James 5:8
1 Peter 1:20, 4:7
1 John 2:18
1 John 4:3
Revelation 1:1, 1:3, 3:11, 22:7, 22:12, 22:20Note that when some context would be appropriate to understand the meaning of the specific verse, I have included it:Matthew 16:28: Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Matthew 23:36: Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
23:37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
23:38: Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
23:39: For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.Matthew 24:34: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
24:35: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
24:36: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Matthew 26:62: And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
26:63: But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
26:64: Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Mark 9:1: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.Mark 13:30: Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
13:31: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Mark 14:60: And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
14:61: But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
14:62: And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Luke 9:27: But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.Luke 21:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
21:32: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
21:33: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.John 21:22: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.Philippians 4:5: Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.1 Thessalonians 4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.Hebrews 1:1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Hebrews 10:36: For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37: For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.James 5:7: Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
5:8: Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.1 Peter 1:19: But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1:20: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,1 Peter 4:7: But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.1 John 2:17: And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
2:18: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.1 John 4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.Revelation 1:1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
1:2: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
1:3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.Revelation 3:1: And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
[...]
3:11: Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.Revelation 22:6: And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
22:7: Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
[...]
22:12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[...]
22:20: He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.I especially like 1 John 4:3: This means that the antichrist has been around for about 2000 years. How long will it be before the trap is sprung?

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Your charge that Christians are rejoicing and estatic about war is false Christophobic hatespeak.

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Incorrect. It is a direct observation. Or do you not remember the Secretary of the Interior under Reagan, James Watt, who directly said that we should not worry about caring for the environment since it would help to bring on the end of the world? I should point out that Santorum (the same guy who has compared gays to pedophiles) seems to think the same thing.Now, do all Christians agree with this sentiment? Of course not. But to say that there aren't significant numbers of Christians, and powerful ones, at that, who don't think that we are living in the end times and find things like the various wars we are in as signs of the end, thus being at least party joyful that this means that the King is returning, to say that is disingenuous at best.

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What I said clearly is that there's a moral decline, rise in crime and disintegration of the home.

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But it isn't true. Things have been getting better. The only time we ever see things getting worse is when the conservatives get into power. Crime, pre-marital sex, abortion, all those things were declining under Clinton and increasing under Reagan.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

maverick writes:

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just to clear something up..
the economy was fucked up before 9/11.

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...precisely according to that evil Gray Davis' plan! Bwa-ha-ha!That's right...it was Gray Davis that convinced Enron to manipulate the energy market, thus costing California billions! It was Gray Davis that caused 9/11, thus accelerating an already declining economy including a collapse in the airline industry! It was Gray Davis that caused the dot.com bubble to burst!Therefore, we must impeach Gray Davis!------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!