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Author Topic:   Feedback about reliability of dating
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 6 of 77 (48412)
08-02-2003 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jake22
08-02-2003 12:01 AM


Jake - from post #12 at http://EvC Forum: Carbon-14: A Scientifically Proven Dating Method?
the 2300-year old living mollusk is this:
Is apparently a reference to the paper "Radiocarbon Dating: Fictitious Results with Mollusk Shells", M L Keith and G M Anderson, Science, vol 141, pp 634-637 (1963). The entire article is in essence an explanation why river-dwelling snails give bad 14C dates - they get lots of their carbon from "old" groundwater and humus - and a warning to other scientists doing 14C dating to look out for these effects.
Whoever you got that list from, and my guess is that his initials are KH, is out to deceive, or at the very best never even read the title of the paper he referenced, though he did apparently find the time to find sample 62-48 in Table 1 and extract only that date.
There is another, similar YEC claim of 27,000 year ages on living snails - this is extracted from "Major Carbon-14 Deficiency in Modern Snail Shells from Southern Nevada Springs" A C Riggs, Science, v 224, pp 58-61 (1984). These have a similar cause, as the springs where the snails grew are fed by groundwater loaded with ancient ( 14C depleted) carbon in the form of bicarbonate.
As to old dates for seal meat: what species of seal? What do they eat? I doubt if it's escargot, but I'll bet that the original reference knows and explains why the got old dates.
However, how does one get pg. 634 from a magazine? That is a big 'zine!
They run consecutive page numbers for all the issues in a volume, which is months' worth. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences gets page numbers up over 10,000! Bigger than Modern Bride, even!

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 8 of 77 (194054)
03-24-2005 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jydee
03-24-2005 12:22 PM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
We also have other evidence for nearer that date, though - no coins later than that Roman year are buried there, and a volcanic ash layer in the GRIP (?) ice core from Greenland was counted to be within seven years of 79 AD. R D Alley did the work, but I don't have a citation at hand.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Jydee, posted 03-27-2005 7:36 AM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 10 of 77 (194809)
03-27-2005 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jydee
03-27-2005 7:36 AM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
The first two links you give disagree pretty badly with each other, too: the second claims errors of four years or so, while the first claims a few millenia. There's plenty enough C-14 and uranium/thorium dates, as well as lake varves and ice layers, to confine dates as young as Roman times to within a few decades of the generally accepted ones. I don't see too much point in worrying about much greater accuracy than that.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 18 of 77 (261820)
11-21-2005 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Sardonica
11-20-2005 11:07 PM


Re: Dating Dinosaurs
Mary H. Schweitzer of North Carolina State University has discovered flexible blood vessels inside the fossilized thighbone
Hmmmm. The author didn't read Schweitzer's paper. What she found was that when she dissolved away the rock making up the bulk of the fossil, the demineralized remnants were flexible.
It's a pretty sure bet that the Hell Creek Formation is over 65,000,000 years old. What's lacking, as Schweitzer points out, is a few bits of knowledge about the variety of ways things can get fossilized.
And hello, Sardonica!

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 20 of 77 (262727)
11-23-2005 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Sardonica
11-23-2005 3:05 PM


It seems that while carbon dating does tell us that Hell Creek Formation is around 65,000,000 years old
No, carbon-14 dating is completely silent on any dates at all past 50,000 years or so. It's essentially all decayed by then, and can't be used. Much like trying to lay out a racetrack for a marathon with a one-inch dial micrometer, it's just the wrong tool.
I'll be away from home most all weekend, so I can't promise any immediate links, but I remember that volcanic ashfall layers within the Hell Creek fm. were used in dating, most likely by potassium-argon or argon-argon. That, and the "iridium layer" that caps the Cretaceous (which contains the Hell Creek) has been dated by at least four independent methods at a couple dozen places around the world. And they all agree at 64.7 million years, plus or minus a few.
Don Batten, Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, and Carl Wieland....
....completely ignore the extensive literature that actually reconstructs the history of C14 content of the atmosphere for the last 38,000 years. It's been correlated with tree rings, lake varves, ocean-bottom varves, uranium-thorium dates of corals, ice layers from twenty or so spots around the world, stalagmites.....
They're bluffing, and hoping their intended audience doesn't know (or care) where to go to check up on them.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 38 of 77 (366065)
11-26-2006 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Confidence
11-25-2006 7:00 PM


Re: Real Age versus falsified concepts
it is hard for creationists to come up with money,
Ummmm....Answers in Genesis has just about finished their $25,000,000 "creation museum" up by Cinncinnati. Doesn't sound like chicken feed....

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 54 of 77 (376910)
01-14-2007 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by elcano
01-14-2007 8:50 AM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
The ashfall from 79 AD has also been dated by argon-argon methods, and to within +/- 94 years: Renne, et al., Science 29 August 1997: Vol. 277. no. 5330, pp. 1279 - 1280:
Laser incremental heating of sanidine from the pumice deposited by the Plinian eruption of Vesuvius in 79 A.D. yielded a 40Ar/39Ar isochron age of 1925 94 years ago. Close agreement with the Gregorian calendar-based age of 1918 years ago demonstrates that the 40Ar/39Ar method can be reliably extended into the temporal range of recorded history. Excess 40Ar is present in the sanidine in concentrations that would cause significant errors if ignored in dating Holocene samples.

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Replies to this message:
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