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Author Topic:   Points Of View
anglagard
Member (Idle past 864 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 10 of 45 (484328)
09-27-2008 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by b0ilingfrog
09-27-2008 7:32 PM


This Point of View
BOilingfrog writes:
Creationists choose not to put their faith in the decades of research of men but in a single volume that has yet to require correction (because it is written by God).
Unless you can tell us which version of the Bible was 'officially' written by God out of the 5 versions I have at my house or the 20 I have at work or the hundreds that exist, it is difficult to ascertain exactly what is 'written by God." In other words, if you have the guts, name which version of the Bible is written by God.
On a broader scale recent repeatable experiments in stratigraphy and sedimentology overturn at least the first three principals used to date rock layers.
To repeat, if you have the guts, please show us these "repeatable experiments in stratigraphy and sedimentology overturn at least the first three principals (sic) used to date rock layers." My knowledge of the geosciences is a bit rusty since for monetary reasons I had to drop out of the master's program in hydrology at New Mexico Tech back in 1983. Perhaps you are aware of something I may have missed in perusing Science and Nature, namely the entire paradigm of young on top old on bottom (unless shown otherwise such as in overthrust belts) or less dense things tend to float and more dense things tend to sink (as is called isostasy).
Please feel free to enlighten us as to your superior scientific and theological knowledge. Perhaps if you are willing to engage in debate rather than pronounce the infallible truth from on high, there is the possibility you may actually learn something. After all that is what this forum is all about.
Edited by anglagard, : just add a sentence
Edited by anglagard, : add sic to improper use of English, should read principles (basic knowledge based guidelines) not principals (who are the CEO's of secondary schools in the US)

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-27-2008 7:32 PM b0ilingfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-27-2008 10:01 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 18 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-27-2008 10:06 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 19 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-27-2008 10:27 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 21 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-27-2008 10:48 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 30 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-28-2008 2:37 AM anglagard has replied
 Message 39 by b0ilingfrog, posted 10-04-2008 12:16 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 864 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 32 of 45 (484389)
09-28-2008 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by b0ilingfrog
09-28-2008 2:37 AM


Philip II of Spain is Not a Good Role Model
bOllingfrog writes:
Keeping this short. You wanna flesh it out do your own research
Oh my, look what I found in Google, second hit using the search term "Guy Berthault." Perhaps you should do your own research using the term "critical thinking" or even "right wing authoritarianism."
Berthault looking into work done by a guy named Walter inspired by results from research on the Glomar Explorer (or was it Challenger?) never mind. He wanted to see what kind of experiments had been done on sedimntology and stratigraphy before doing his own. Guess what? No prior art. It would seem these principles were so intuitively correct that no one ever challenged or confirmed them with any kind of repeatable experiment. We have a name for that . .it’ll come to me later.
I, like every one else, pretty much agreed with all these principles of stratigraphy. I never saw them in order or even on a single page. Again being so simple and reasonable who would question them?
Once the experiments were done the first three of these along with one associated with fossils were proven to not be principles as defined (a general law exemplified in numerous cases). In fact they applied only in rare instances if at all.
This is what was used to establish the geologic column and it is all wrong. Sediments many many layers higher can be much older. The foundation of the fossil record is mud. This "proof" of evolution was based on three major assumptions which led to a fourth. Like fossils found on opposite sides of oceans identify layers they are found in as the same age.
Oh I remember now, we call repeatable experiments science. I dropped out too.
Now for the conclusion from that second hit on Google, namely Critique of Guy Berthault's "Stratigraphy"
quote:
Most of Berthault's "discoveries" are not new. Although Berthault's hard work is very interesting, he and his YEC colleagues are often unaware that geologists knew about these "discoveries" in sedimentology and field geology decades or even more than a century ago. In other cases, Berthault's ideas (such as his comprehension of Steno's Principles and uniformitarianism) are grossly outdated. Because YECs Berthault and Austin's views of the geological properties of the Tonto Group lack sufficient detail, their "Flood model" utterly fails to explain the origin of the Group.
References to clowns like Berthault and the endless recycling of PRATTs are nothing new here. You are not the first person to recite medieval, or indeed even bronze age, 'science' as absolute and unquestionable simply because you discover Steno somewhere between how to spot a witch and determine guilt by water in your 'dark ages' bag of 'irrefutable' 15th century 'truth.'
Some use their brain for thinking as well as only regulating body temperature as Aristotle would have it. Please consider using current science instead of medieval 'science' before claiming to know more about all mathematics, physics, chemistry, geology and biology than all the thousands of people who have devoted their lives to acquiring the actual truth about the natural world in the most recent 500 years.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-28-2008 2:37 AM b0ilingfrog has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 864 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 34 of 45 (484393)
09-28-2008 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by b0ilingfrog
09-28-2008 2:37 AM


Re: This Point of View
Eliminate double post.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by b0ilingfrog, posted 09-28-2008 2:37 AM b0ilingfrog has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 864 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 35 of 45 (484394)
09-28-2008 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Syamsu
09-28-2008 6:03 AM


Syamsu writes:
I think the last, we do not have to wait, direct evidence and common sense is sufficient grounding for a scientific theory, we do not have to know everything about creation prior to accepting any creation.
Let me rephrase then.
We do not have to know everything about what is in the kool-aid prior to drinking any kool-aid.
- Reverend Jim Jones, Guyana, Nov. 1978
Edited by anglagard, : While my allies would immediately get the reference, I think my detractors likely need help

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Syamsu, posted 09-28-2008 6:03 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
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