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Author Topic:   Mammalian Middle Ear Evolution
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 7 of 25 (484660)
09-30-2008 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AlphaOmegakid
09-30-2008 4:42 PM


Re: Serious misunderstanding...
quote:
That also means that there is a potential falsification about the prediction of ToE (not the whole theory)within the DDME development. For instance what if the DDME was found in the earliest mammals. This would be in conflict with the ToE, Right?
You're expecting to work out an awful lot without fossil evidence (or an adequate substitute).
The theory of evolution does not say that the mammalian middle ear evolved in mammals, rather than in their pre-mammalian ancestors - just feathers evolved in the dinosaurian ancestors of birds. In that case the DDME would be found in the very earliest mammals, as feathers are found on the earliest birds. The question is simply not resolvable on purely theoretical grounds.
A better potential falsification would be if there were no evolutionary route to the mammalian middle ear from any potential ancestors. As the article points out, that was once thought to be the case, but the discovery of intermediate forms proved otherwise.
And that is a very strong confirmation of evolution - if evolution were false there is no good reason why these intermediates should exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-30-2008 4:42 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-30-2008 5:36 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 9 of 25 (484664)
09-30-2008 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by AlphaOmegakid
09-30-2008 5:36 PM


Re: Serious misunderstanding...
quote:
Unfortunately for you, this statement is patently false. Yanoconodon is an early mammal, and it doesn't have the DDME according to the Nature article. There are many others early mammal fossils, but DDME data is not available on all of them
ROTFL! You are seriously suggesting that a fossil is pure theory rather than fossil evidence ?!?
You prove my point. It is the fossil evidence that tells use where the DDME evolved NOT pure theory.
quote:
What I am trying to establish is does ToE actually make any predictions.
And, as I pointed out the article that you cited is all about a successful prediction, made from applying the theory to the evidence known at the time. And there are other, similar predictions, notably the discovery ofTiktaalik

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-30-2008 5:36 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-30-2008 6:28 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 17 of 25 (484699)
10-01-2008 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid
09-30-2008 6:28 PM


Re: Serious misunderstanding...
quote:
Are you laughing at your own mistake.
No, I said you couldn't work out when the DDME appeared without fossil evidence or an equivalent and you tried to disagree - by citing fossil evidence.
quote:
Now my question is what is the prediction of ToE about when the DDME ear evolved? If it can predict Tiktaalik, can't the theory predict the first DDME find?
Not without adequate evidence to do so. The evidence that you have cited is quite insufficient to make a good prediction. All we can say us some time after the first mammals - without a good way to date the first mammals.
quote:
Does ToE based on the fossil evidence of the ear and jaw predict that the DMME evolved sometime after 125mya, before 125mya, closer to 70mya
The evidence that you cited is completely insuffucient to say for reasons that you claimed to understand. Unless you are trying to trick someone into mistakenly making a prediction on inadequate evidence there is something very wrong here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-30-2008 6:28 PM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

  
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