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Author Topic:   Mysterious Dark Flow Discovery
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 9 (484726)
10-01-2008 9:31 AM


A friend sent me an email regarding this phenomenon. This thread is for the purpose of discussion relative to this and a venue for members to comment on what impact, if any, this may have on current cosmos theory.
Mysterious New 'Dark Flow' Discovered in Space
Thursday, September 25, 2008
By Clara Moskowitz
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,427082,00.html

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by onifre, posted 10-01-2008 10:14 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 10-01-2008 12:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 9 (484730)
10-01-2008 9:44 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 3 of 9 (484738)
10-01-2008 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
10-01-2008 9:31 AM


Buz writes:
what impact, if any, this may have on current cosmos theory.
To what cosmos theory specifically?
Here's what I could dig up on the net,
http://dsc.discovery.com/...08/09/25/universe-dark-flow.html
Universe Tugged by Mysterious 'Dark Flow'
Larry O'Hanlon, Discovery News
quote:
The sole possible explanation Kashlinsky offers is that there might be a large, very bulky neighboring part of the universe which is so far away we cannot see it. It could be, if inflationary theories are correct, a twin universe that inflated less evenly than our own did soon after the Big Bang.
The inflationary theory suggests that our universe went through a brief period of hyper expansion soon after the Big Bang. It explains how matter managed to spread out so evenly in space, rather than get stuck clumped in just one corner of space, as would happen in a more gradually expanding universe. Inflation moves everything apart faster than gravity could clump it.
It could be, then, that there was another, less effective inflation next door to our observable universe and that other blob from the Big Bang remained clumpier. If so it could be out there, loaded with matter, and it is exerting a powerful gravitational pull on every observable thing in our universe.
Maybe.
"We are kind of still puzzled by the result," said Kashlinsky. "We kept checking and checking (the observations and calculations) and nothing else can explain this."
Perhaps, this is the first true evidence for multiverses that we are seeing. Pretty cool.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 10-01-2008 9:31 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-01-2008 2:40 PM onifre has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 9 (484746)
10-01-2008 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
10-01-2008 9:31 AM


Here's the abstract;
University of Chicago Press Journals: Cookie absent
It's only $9.00 for the full text - but I doubt that I'll know what lots of the words mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 10-01-2008 9:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2008 12:50 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 5 of 9 (484754)
10-01-2008 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coragyps
10-01-2008 12:04 PM


It's only $9.00 for the full text - but I doubt that I'll know what lots of the words mean.
And here you can find out for free...
And here you can find out what it all means...
I simply can't remember what life was like before the LANL archives

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 10-01-2008 12:04 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 9 (484768)
10-01-2008 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by onifre
10-01-2008 10:14 AM


onifre writes:
To what cosmos theory specifically?
1. Relative to everything from the present BBT to what drives the expansion. I've made comments in the past regarding the possibility of the portion of what is observable that it may be a minuscule area of the total universe.
2. As I understood the link, the observed expansion may perhaps be due to gravitational pull from bodies significantly greater than what we are able to observe.
3. What interested me also was the point that due to the velocity of light, we may not have any empirical method of determining the age of the universe which perhaps might lend some support to my eternal universe position.
onifre writes:
Perhaps, this is the first true evidence for multi verses that we are seeing. Pretty cool.
I didn't get that notion from it at all. I understood it as suggesting the possibility of a universe far greater in volume than we can imagine.
Imo, the notion of multi-universes is a misnomer in that even if there are scattered huge areas of matter/mass in the universe they would all come under the meaning of universe. Again, that's just my opinion. Perhaps that would lend support to a flat space POV.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by onifre, posted 10-01-2008 10:14 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by onifre, posted 10-01-2008 5:15 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 7 of 9 (484781)
10-01-2008 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
10-01-2008 2:40 PM


Buz writes:
Relative to everything from the present BBT to what drives the expansion.
No, none of our current models fo our universe are affected by this single movement of a cluster of galaxies. It simply means that something with enough mass to have a strong enough gravitational pull, is causing them to move.
the observed expansion may perhaps be due to gravitational pull from bodies significantly greater than what we are able to observe.
Our universes' expantion is due to the inflationary period moments after the BB, this is not related to our expantion. The expantion in our universe is uniform, and everywhere we look, this movement is only of 1 super cluster.
What interested me also was the point that due to the velocity of light, we may not have any empirical method of determining the age of the universe which perhaps might lend some support to my eternal universe position.
The explanation the Fox article gave about the SoL and the age of our universe was a very layman brush through of it. The age of our universe is very well calculated by none other than your favorite theory General Relativity. Our universe from the BB to now is 13.7Byo, that takes us back to T=O.
I didn't get that notion from it at all.
Then you did not read the link I provided nor the quote, here I'll re-quote the specifics,
quote:
The sole possible explanation Kashlinsky offers is that there might be a large, very bulky neighboring part of the universe which is so far away we cannot see it. It could be, if inflationary theories are correct, a twin universe that inflated less evenly than our own did soon after the Big Bang.
*Bold for emphasis.
Imo, the notion of multi-universes is a misnomer in that even if there are scattered huge areas of matter/mass in the universe they would all come under the meaning of universe. Again, that's just my opinion.
Your notion for a multiverse is incorrect. It would not be scattered mass, it would be a multiverse system from, what M-Theory calls, a Membrane.
M-theory - Wikipedia
From wiki,
quote:
In theoretical physics, M-theory is a mathematical proposal that unifies the five ten-dimensional superstring theories as limits of a single 11-dimensional theory. Though a full description of the theory is not yet known, the low-energy dynamics are known to be supergravity interacting with 2- and 5-dimensional membranes. This theory is the unique supersymmetric theory in eleven dimensions, with its low-energy matter content and interactions fully determined.
But honestly this is nowhere near my area of understanding yet, perhaps cavediver or son goku can clue both of us in on their opinion of the matter. Howver, from what I do understand, a multiverse system would have seperate universes with different laws of physics.
Perhaps that would lend support to a flat space POV.
If space where flat planets would smash into the Sun.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 10-01-2008 2:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 10-01-2008 7:15 PM onifre has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 9 (484803)
10-01-2008 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by onifre
10-01-2008 5:15 PM


Thanks for your reply, Onifre. I can understand why expansionist theory would go with multi verses. Each body of mass would allegedly have it's own expansion unless space were considered flat and infinite. Is that a correct conclusion?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by onifre, posted 10-01-2008 5:15 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 10-01-2008 9:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 9 of 9 (484822)
10-01-2008 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
10-01-2008 7:15 PM


Buz writes:
Each body of mass would allegedly have it's own expansion unless space were considered flat and infinite.
Lets re-write it properly,
"Each universe would have it's own set of laws, some may expand, some may not."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 10-01-2008 7:15 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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