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First of all, I believe there is God (regardless of any specific religion). Why? Because, I believe in right and wrong.
I believe in right and wrong, but I don't believe in God.
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What I mean is, if according to science everything is just a product of random reactions and mutations then how can I (or anybody) complain about what is right and what is wrong, how can I complain about unfairness?
Wow, do you ever have a strange view of science. It's all messed up. Let me try to help.
First of all, it seems like you are talking about the Theory of Evolution. Mutations are random, yes, but natural
selection is not.
Selection is the exact opposite of random, no?
Second, please explain why randomness in nature precludes our notions of right and wrong?
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But it is in my essense to want to be treated fairly. As my school teacher used to say "Life is unfair, get used to it". Well, I'll get used to it, no doubt about that. But why do I feel it in the first place? According to science it's a concept which does not exist.
Wrong. You hold a cartoon image of science. Science says no such thing.
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There are just physical laws of nature. Nothing else.
Science deals with naturalistic explanations for naturalistic phenomena.
It does not comment upon the supernatural, the ethical, the aesthetic in order to place value. That is not it's realm.
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So how can science explain right and wrong?
Science
doesn't explain right and wrong. It is not designed to answer such philosophical or ethical questions.
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How can it even begin to EMPIRICALLY approach right/wrong behaviour? Who establishes the moral laws? Society in which you grew up in? Or communist society in which I grew up in? Which one is right? Prove it with science. Which science are you gonna use? quantum physics? chemistry? biology? social behavior? - but the last one is just a study of social body, or individual in a society, things of that nature. Can it prove that when Stalin killed 15 million of his own people, he was doing a bad thing? There are some people (and I personaly know a few) that think he did the right thing. WHO IS RIGHT?
I feel for your struggle, but you are putting blame in an inappropriate place.
Science
does not attempt to determine what is right or wrong.
Science can describe behavior, but it does not
proscribe behavior on a moral basis.
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WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE A CONCEPT OF RIGHT (OR WRONG)? IT'S ALL JUST A PRODUCT OF RANDOMNESS.
We have concepts of right and wrong because it is in the interest of society to have them. It makes things more pleasant and productive for everyone if there are rules that we follow most of the time. It's good for the group, in other words, and, evolutionarily speaking, makes sense because there is safety in unified numbers.
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And that's what makes me believe in God. Because, there are underlined moral laws (and concepts of right and wrong) which transend all gender, race and age. To me that is what RELIGION IS. But how can you EMPIRICALLY TEST THESE LAWS? What FACTS DO YOU WANT?
It seems that you are angry at science for not answerning questions it is not designed or intended to answer. It also seems that you reject parts of science for making you feel uncomfortable about purpose and meaning.
One can hold moral values and still accept that random mutation results in genetic diversity through natural selection. One can accept that "nature is probably all there is" and still hold moral values.
I don't think most of our prisons are filled with Athiests. In fact, the opposite is true.
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"Evolution is a 'theory', just like gravity. If you don't like it, go jump off a bridge."
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-04-2003]