Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 79 (8960 total)
27 online now:
DrJones*, dwise1, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK (4 members, 23 visitors)
Newest Member: Mikee
Post Volume: Total: 869,270 Year: 1,018/23,288 Month: 1,018/1,851 Week: 141/321 Day: 0/56 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Trilobites, Mountains and Marine Deposits - Evidence of a flood?
Percy
Member
Posts: 19231
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 41 of 518 (482158)
09-15-2008 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Jason777
09-15-2008 5:23 AM


Jason777 writes:

Atually i would be looking for seashell layers millions of years old thick and corals as well.

There are miles-thick marine layers all over the world. These layers form gradually by deposition of the remains of sea life and of suspended inorganic materials, commonly at a rate in the range of 1 to 5 centimeters per thousand years.

You won't find miles-thick coral layers because each species of coral has a limited range of depths at which it can flourish, plus the surface of the water represents a height limit. Coral beds are built from the sea floor upward by living creatures, much different from other layers that form as creatures living above die, as is the case with the much thicker limestone layers. Nonetheless, coral layers tracing all the back to the Cambrian have been found.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Jason777, posted 09-15-2008 5:23 AM Jason777 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Jason777, posted 09-15-2008 3:53 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19231
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 44 of 518 (482308)
09-15-2008 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Jason777
09-15-2008 3:53 PM


Hi Jason,

I'm not able to find anything on the web that even remotely resembles your description of the Tapeats. Where are you getting your information from?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Jason777, posted 09-15-2008 3:53 PM Jason777 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19231
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 87 of 518 (485839)
10-12-2008 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by IchiBan
10-12-2008 3:03 AM


Re: NOT about WHEN ...
They're not RAZD's scenarios. One is the traditional creationist scenario, the other is Zothar's. But I think you're right that it sets up a false dichotomy to say that either one or the other must be wrong. They could both be wrong. Certainly they cannot both be right, which I think was RAZD's point.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by IchiBan, posted 10-12-2008 3:03 AM IchiBan has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19231
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 120 of 518 (486480)
10-21-2008 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by roxrkool
10-20-2008 8:55 PM


Re: The date of the flood - not necessary yet?
There's another point that I think might fit on your list. Psychologists are in the midst of establishing how unexpectedly frequently human beings make up their minds first and seek rationales later. This is a purely human tendency to which no one is immune, though some obviously have it more than others.

One important aspect of scientific training is imbuing in students the habit of thinking first and reaching conclusions later, and one significant difference between evolutionists and creationists is that the former frequently have scientific training while the latter do not.

This explains the creationist habit of making up their minds first and seeking evidence later, but it should be kept in mind that we on the evolutionist side do the exact same thing, because we usually accept the findings of science before seeing the data. Where we have a big advantage is that when we seek the evidence behind a scientific position we know it will very likely be there because scientific positions are reached through the scientific method that requires putting evidence before the conclusion.

Interestingly, this human tendency to jump to conclusions has secondary and tertiary effects. Not only do creationists jump to conclusions like, for example, that the earth is young, they also jump to the conclusion that the evidence supporting that fact must exist, else so many books and websites wouldn't be saying so. They then jump to another conclusion that the people behind those books and websites know what they're talking about.

But true science produces a record of advancing knowledge. We know where good science is being done because it produces positive results. Creationists decry the methodological naturalism of science as hostile to Christian thought and express a desire for "a broadly theistic understanding of nature" (Wedge document), yet they have not as yet been able to demonstrate that this approach yields positive results. They not only haven't shown it to be superior to modern scientific methods, they haven't shown it to be equal, or almost as good, or even to produce any results at all. A significant handicap in making such demonstrations is that they haven't yet defined any theistic scientific methods, but they somehow know they'd produce better scientific results, or at least results they'd be happy with.

I'm afraid I've wondered far afield just to offer more support for the view that YECs with any experience in the debate would tend to shy away from offering specific dates for the flood, since they are already aware of the lack of any supporting evidence for any date. But I thought important to note that what they're doing is really just human nature.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by roxrkool, posted 10-20-2008 8:55 PM roxrkool has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by roxrkool, posted 10-21-2008 11:21 PM Percy has not yet responded
 Message 126 by Buzsaw, posted 11-16-2008 5:58 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19231
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 176 of 518 (490108)
12-02-2008 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Jazzns
12-02-2008 12:05 PM


Re: Crank support even worse than YECs
Jazzns writes:

e is a total crank. If anyone wants to hear an interesting interview with this guy. Check out this podcast.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/skepticsguide/podcastinfo.asp?pid=51

Definitely listen to this podcast interview with Neal Adams of X-Men comic book fame. The guy is certifiable.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Jazzns, posted 12-02-2008 12:05 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by kuresu, posted 12-02-2008 5:47 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020