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Author | Topic: Can science refute the "god hypothesis" beyond all reasonable doubt? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Agobot Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: You gotta be careful with that one though. If I hand you an envelope and tell you that there's a dollar in it, how would you determine that there isn't one in there? It would be from the absense of evidence that there is a dollar in there (i.e. its empty). So that absense of evidence would be evidence that the dollar is not in the envelope. However, this does not prove that there is no dollar. You could have simply not seen it. What do you mean - that you could see it and that i wouldn't? Or that there is no objective reality? I don't think i follow your thoughts correctly.
CS writes: They could.... You can have an open mind and remain unconvinced of god's existence. That speaks more of agnosticism than of atheism.
CS writes: Unless you're talking about people who hold a positive belief that god does not exist... But nobody really holds that. I think you'll be surprised what a great number of atheists there are who hold a positive view that god does not exist. They are more than certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are no gods. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" "I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion" -Albert Einstein
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Catholic Scientist writes: You gotta be careful with that one though.If I hand you an envelope and tell you that there's a dollar in it, how would you determine that there isn't one in there? It would be from the absense of evidence that there is a dollar in there (i.e. its empty). So that absense of evidence would be evidence that the dollar is not in the envelope. However, this does not prove that there is no dollar. You could have simply not seen it. What do you mean - that you could see it and that i wouldn't? Or that there is no objective reality? I don't think i follow your thoughts correctly. I'm definately not saying that there is no objective reality. I meant that there could be situations where there is a dollar in the envelope but you just didn't see it. For example, if the envelope was very large, perhaps you didn't look everywhere in side it. Or one side of the dollar could have been painted white and you overlooked it because the envelope is also white. Something like that.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
CS writes: I meant that there could be situations where there is a dollar in the envelope but you just didn't see it. For example, if the envelope was very large, perhaps you didn't look everywhere in side it. Or one side of the dollar could have been painted white and you overlooked it because the envelope is also white. Something like that. So what are you saying - that i can see/feel your spiritual experience or a similar experience if i followed your path? I'd be interested to try that but how? "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" "I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion" -Albert Einstein
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So what are you saying - that i can see/feel your spiritual experience or a similar experience if i followed your path? I suppose you could. If you were standing next to me when I saw a ghost, I think that you would have seen it too. If you had, then that lends credibility to there actaully being a ghost there, if you could not, then maybe I was imagining it.
I'd be interested to try that but how? Have you ever tripped?
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
CS writes: Have you ever tripped? I tried weed when i was 22 but it didn't produce results. I'll try LSD one day but it will be just to see what my mind is capable of producing in terms of other realities. "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" "I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion" -Albert Einstein
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onifre Member (Idle past 2972 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
CS writes: I suppose you could. If you were standing next to me when I saw a ghost, I think that you would have seen it too. Yeah if we were all on shrooms.
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dogrelata Member (Idle past 5333 days) Posts: 201 From: Scotland Joined: |
Straggler writes: IF:Two people arrive at two completely opposite mutually exclusive conclusions via subjective, non-empirical faith based evidence alone AND: Each is equally convinced of the irrefutable certainty of his own faith based conclusion THEN: How can we tell which one has reached a reliable conclusion and which one has not? If we’re lucky, they hold an election. If not, they have a war, or a genocide or a burning of books.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2972 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I think you'll be surprised what a great number of atheists there are who hold a positive view that god does not exist. As an atheist I can accept spiritual experiences. I can accept the fact that humans can subjectively experience things that question the very nature of reality, these type of experiences do not interfere with an atheistic belief. However, I am an (a)theist, which is to say atheistic towards theological concepts of gods and godesses. I disbelieve in all the gods and godesses from Zues to Allah. Do not confuse atheism. It is just the rejection of the gods depicted in scriptures and/or mythological texts. As time goes on, and more and more folks take to the belief that Catholic Sci has adopted (science/spiritual) , then atheism will get harder and harder to define. If at some point a unanimous decision is made by all of society that God is simply the fundamental forces of the universe, then there will probably be no more atheists. At least I would not be one because God will no longer be the God of the scriptures but a more naturalistic God, one that can be empirically defined, IMO. "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2972 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I'll try LSD one day but it will be just to see what my mind is capable of producing in terms of other realities.
Mushrooms, not LSD...keep it natural.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Mushrooms, not LSD...keep it natural.
LSD isn't supernatural
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
CS writes:
Yeah if we were all on shrooms.
I suppose you could. If you were standing next to me when I saw a ghost, I think that you would have seen it too. I was sober.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2972 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
LSD isn't supernatural It's synthetic though, not fresh off a turd as God intended.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
LSD isn't supernatural
It's synthetic though, not fresh off a turd as God intended.
Heaven's in a cow's butt!
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onifre Member (Idle past 2972 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Abogot writes: just to see what my mind is capable of producing in terms of other realities. Think you might enjoy this video, you too CS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v905fhCqq2Y Perhaps the road to viewing our reality in a differnt way IS in psychedelic drugs like DMT.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
onifre writes: Think you might enjoy this video, you too CS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v905fhCqq2Y Perhaps the road to viewing our reality in a differnt way IS in psychedelic drugs like DMT. Cool, just spoke to a friend on yahoo messanger, it seems DMT is called in Bulgarian "Ayahusca". However i was warned against trying it, someone had tried it and said it could mess up your life forever.He said he saw with his own eyes how his cat turned to a dog as the weed started to take effect. I asked how realistic was the visual from 1 to 10, 10 being our reality, he said 10. Then he said snakes started to fall down from the ceiling and he kept his eyes open during the whole time, he said he couldn't distinguish trip from reality. He said the nightmares haunted him for close to a year after the bad trip, he said absolutely don't do it, you'll need a psychitrist. It's still a painful experience for him to come back to his memories. DMT seems to be a religious drug, here is what wikipedia says: "McKenna writes of his DMT experiences with a decidedly less skeptical slant, often presuming that the drug's "intoxication" is indicative of realms of consciousness equally as valid as waking-life if not more so. In his writings and speeches, he recounts encounters with entities he sometimes describes as "Self-Transforming Machine Elves" among equally colorful phrases. McKenna believed DMT to be a tool that could be used to enhance communication and allow for communication with other-worldly entities. Other users report visitation from external intelligences attempting to impart information. These Machine Elf experiences are said to be shared by many DMT users. From a researcher's perspective, perhaps best known is Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule." Has anyone from the users tried DMT before? There does seem to be more to the human mind than what is generally accepted. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" "I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion" -Albert Einstein
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