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Author Topic:   the rules in science
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5558 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 84 of 123 (485770)
10-11-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Syamsu
10-11-2008 5:40 AM


Re: Different words for clarity
Syamsu writes:
It is simply so, if you do not categorize, if you do not acknowledge, if you spend all your serious intellectual thought on the side of objectivity and material, then subjectivity will be just one material process among many material processes, the process of oughts, as like gravity, one among many.
You will simply redefine the meaning of subjectivity along the lines of a predefined goal, where the alternatives are in the present, and computation of the alternatives with the predefined goal is noted as a decision.
So then love becomes a function of the goal survival, and any choice between love or hate is a computation of them, according to which gives the better survival result. This then results in oughts and ought nots, on the basis of objectified calculable love and hate, which morality is not neccessarily in line with the goal of survival, but they are objectified within the framework of survival.
So you will develop zero knowledge in terms of freedom, you will simply make it all forced, and leave a lot of vagueness at the center of your argument to substitute for acknowledging freedom.
And since a very large percentage of scientists fall into this trap of defining decisions without freedom, with a predefined goal, I see no reason why you wouldn't as well.
I am not going to pretend I understand what you are talking about, but it seems you mean something along the claims of a Japanese researcher Masaru Emoto, who claimed inanimate objects such as water feel emotions:
"Messages from water"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcJyObrka-0
The movie is part of another movie worth seeing - "What the bleep do we know"(although some of the claims in that movie are pure speculation).
I don't believe inanimate objects have souls, but if you are claiming this i'd be very interested to hear your arguments for it.
If you are saying something else that evades my understanding, could you re-phrase so that more people could take part in your debate? Imagine you were talking to your granny or a truck driver - tell them in a way they'd understand by all means.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"
-Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Syamsu, posted 10-11-2008 5:40 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Syamsu, posted 10-11-2008 6:16 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5558 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 103 of 123 (486118)
10-16-2008 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Syamsu
10-15-2008 5:31 PM


Subjective interpretations
Syamsu writes:
Your evolutionist ideas about blind, pitiless indifference are pseudoscience, obviously.
Evolution theory does not deal with the origin of life, so evolution does not equal no creator. There are a few things that stand out in arguments on EvC:
1. People are misguided to think that if the Bible or certain religion is wrong, then there is no creator.
2. People are wrong to think that evolution deals with the origin of life and that there is no creator if evolution is true.
3. People are misled to think that an eternal(Big Bang - Big Crunch) universe precludes a creator.
4. People misinterpret science conclusions(subjective as they can be) as claiming there is no creator.
5. People misunderstand science as claiming science has answers to the most fundamental questions of our existence.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"
-Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Syamsu, posted 10-15-2008 5:31 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Syamsu, posted 10-17-2008 10:21 AM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5558 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 106 of 123 (486238)
10-17-2008 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Syamsu
10-17-2008 10:21 AM


Re: Subjective interpretations
syamsu writes:
But tell me Agobat, do you in general obey the rule that you refer all questions about what ought and ought not to the spiritual? Making a clear distinction between is and ought, material and spiritual, or do you allow to mix it up?
Well it's hard to explain. My "religion" is closer to that of Einstein and Stephen Hawking as in:
"It is better not to use the word "god" to describe what I believe because most people use the word to mean a being with whom one can have a personal relationship. Stephen Hawking
In that sense and based on what i've learned from science I come to the conclusion that the spiritual emerged as a result of the interaction of homo sapiens with the environment. IMO about 40 000 years ago something mysterious took place, something that could only be explained by the intricate nature of the human mind - it was the first cave drawings. Art and IMAGINATION were beginning to emerge, laying the foundations for the arrival of spirituality and religions. I don't think spirituality existed much before that time, say 100 000 BC. IMO, spirituality is just a human reaction to the environment. I am not basing my conclusions for the existence of a creator on faith, spiritual experiences, or dogma. If there is a creator, he wants to remain anonymous, he wouldn't reveal himself in any obvious ways to humans.
But then if by spiritual you also mean subjective as a human trait, i'd say science cannot and has no right to deal with certain categories like:
Is a ferrari 430 beautiful or not?
Is life meaningless or not?
Are bigger breasts more beautiful than smaller?
Does size matter?
Etc.
I don't use science all the time, i am human and science is not what's dictating my life.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"
-Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Syamsu, posted 10-17-2008 10:21 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2008 9:49 AM Agobot has not replied
 Message 110 by Syamsu, posted 10-19-2008 5:50 AM Agobot has not replied

  
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